Minutes: MathML Core meeting , 30 Oct, 2023

 Attendees

   - Brian Kardell
   - Neil Soiffer
   - Louis Maher
   - David Carlisle
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Bruce Miller

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-regrets>
Regrets
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-agenda-items>Agenda
Items
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-announcements-updates>
Announcements/Updates
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-issues>
Issues
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-publishing-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-core-issues-170-170-a->Publishing
#170 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/170>

BK: Our current draqft is 1.5 years out ofr date. People want to link to a
current spec.

NS: Must send email to BBV about this.

NS: Pushing out a cr draft is different than an editor's draft.

There are five horizontal review groups that you should submit to. This is
before CR. This is not required.

BK: If you do not do it, you will get negative feedback. Is the date on
this current or from 1.5 years ago?

BK: the current version is what we want. We have not sent it to the other
groups because of the paperwork issue..

*ACTION* BK will follow up with Bert about this. BK will write to the other
groups about this.

dc: can help with this.

NS: There have been a few changes to the spec. Is the cr up to date with
the draft version. The one on github is updated with each commit..

BK: Can we ask about 195.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-usage-of-html-concepts-such-as-quot-flow-content-quot-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-core-issues-195-195-a->Usage
of HTML concepts such as "flow content" 195
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/195>

BK Fred said that he can do the changes if the group agrees.

BK: change it out of cr and give Fred the OK. Once the updates are done, we
request the refiew.

DC: will change it to the editor's draft.

DG: The documents We should say what kind of content this allows.

BK: we have been trying to write things that are interoperable. The authors
are implenetors. We can have authoring advice in the spec.

Bk approved.

we are approving fred to make the changes as proposed in issue 195.

BK: : it will be non normative. put a comment on the issue BK figure what
need for cr and who will do it.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-specify-empty-mo-treatment-209->Specify
empty treatment [#209]

(https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/209)

DG: mathml 3 uses invisible characters to help with spacing. In the opened
documents sets the invisible operator

NS: You are adding the mo to help with spacing.

DG: The mathmo 3 in chapter 5 allows you to use invisible operators

If You are not sure it is times, leave it empty.

DG: there are twelve invisible characters, like invisible spaces.

DC: does not want an empty mo to be used in the spec.

NS: If you do not know if it is there, if you want spaces for some reason,
spaces are added around comparison characters.

NS: likes mo with spacings around it.

BM: people were encouraged to put invisible spaces.

DC: use zero width space.

NS: go with zero width space. likes mo with a space then an mspce

BK: good when he looks at the second examples can we make tests to say what
should happen there.

bk should havde tests for empty elements and what happens to them. See if
we want to make changes in MathML core. Loop in Fred for this. mo has a
space on the left and right.

dg will add the mtext example. take

BK take this back to github.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-reflowing-content-inside-mathml-token-elements-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-core-issues-208-208-a->Reflowing
content inside MathML token elements #208
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/208>

. DG: make a small mathml element and expanded a huge number. without CSS
we are not prepared to deal with this.

bk: we did not take this up in core level 1. We do not have the engineering
and browser resources for what we needed. Should we take this up for core
level 1. it is level 2.

DG: we have not discussed this.

NS: regular wrapingh of lone formulas is more important than wrapping big
numbers.

bk: there is no reason to expect our situation of little resources to
improve. We don't have browser resources. We need the vendors to allocate a
person to do this. They don't do this for SVG so they will not do it for us.

bk: once we have good interoperability on level one, we can go to more
obscure forms of wrapping.

DC: this is not horrible. Put mn in span 1,000 digits, it will wrap.

dc changed an example. changed mns.

DC: span works for this.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-vertical-alignment-of-mo-delimiters-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-core-issues-205-205-a->Vertical
Alignment of delimiters #205 <https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/205>

BM: minsize maxsize only makes sense for stretching. symmetric makes sense
any time you change size. The spec has it having an effect only when
stretching. There is confusion if there are any changes to symmetric when
not stretching. This would be a change to core and full.

Did we say something in mathml 3 about symmetric.

bk change symmetric

bm the end result would be nice but scary to get there.

DC: it is likely to be too late by many years to do this .
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=5.5.0-c#cp-md-0-adjusted-height-amp-depth-of-elements-moved-via-voffset-a-href-https-github-com-w3c-mathml-core-issues-203-203-a->Adjusted
height & depth of elements moved via voffset#203
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml-core/issues/203>