Minutes: MathML Full WG 19 May, 2022

 Attendees:

   - David Carlisle
   - Sam Dooley
   - Bert Bos
   - Steve Noble
   - Louis Maher
   - Bruce Miller
   - Deyan Ginev
   - Cary Supalo
   - Paul Libbrecht
   - David Farmer
   - Patrick Ion

<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=4.14.1-00#cp-md-0-regrets>
Regrets
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=4.14.1-00#cp-md-0-1-announcements-updates-progress-reports>1.
Announcements/Updates/Progress reports

NS: Not much progress chapter 3 last week. Just elementary math and maction
left.

NS: I did get a Chrome/Firefox extension working that takes the inline math
in those pages and makes them accessible. Need to get it through review now.

DC: Fred's Talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9lX5RLWwGs

DC: More work on Chapter 4 examples. They all fold which involves some
rewrites.

DC says SD can reorganize his appendix F.

PI remarks that he can now be an Invited Expert after the University of
Michigan unfortunately gave up its W3C membership. He thanks Bert for his
facilitation of this.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=4.14.1-00#cp-md-0-2-tpac-meeting-what-do-we-want-to-do->2.
TPAC meeting (what do we want to do)

NS: We covered this last week (I think), but did not minute any
discussion/conclusion

NS: Who will show up in person. NS, BB, and PL said they have plans to
attend in person.

Six other people plan to attend virtually.

NS: This is enough people to have a meeting.

NS: What topics should we focus on?

*ACTION* NS will contact the following groups to investigate having a joint
meeting: ARIA, CSS, and APA. There are also issues using MathML with a
shadow dom.

Consider internationalization.
<https://sandbox.cryptpad.info/code/inner.html?ver=4.14.1-00#cp-md-0-3-continue-reviewing-the-a-href-https-w3c-github-io-mathml-mathml-4-doc-a-and-issues>3.
Continue reviewing the MathML 4 doc <https://w3c.github.io/mathml/> and
issues

PL: has been working on the media type issue.

*ACTION* EVERYONE: look at the media types so that we can vote on it.
https://w3c.github.io/mathml-docs/mathml-media-types/

a) *Allow intent attribute on content MathML*
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/289>

This has generated a heated debate which some participants have agreed
should be parked.

Let us spend 5 minutes with a summary of the issues for those not following
the github issue.

No decisions will be made. We will return to this in a month or so.

DG: My apologies for bringing the discussion of issue #289 to a high
temperature.

DG: Short overview of my position why we should avoid Intent on Content for
now:

   1. We don't have enough time to do Intent on Content with sufficient
   prototyping.
   2. Technically, this will confuse adopters and WG members alike about
   scope and specifics of Intent.
   3. Strategically, it may be used by MathML skeptics to
   strawman/disparage the broader Intent work done by the group.

DG: I am not against ultimate inclusion on the Content branch. Rather, I
prefer a staged release of Presentation-only Intent in MathML 4, with
broader Content work in MathML 5.

DC: We can add it as a global attribute like href. It is natural to put
intent on content. Presentation can render it. WE just have to say that it
is valid.

DC: Basically, adding intent as a new global attribute is more natural than
just adding it to Presentation. It does not need any defined behavior, like
href, it can just have a behavior in any resulting presentation. This is
effectively how intent will work (most likely) on non-core Presentation
elements such as ֽmfence and mstack.

BM: He agrees with both sides. We should wait until we know what intent
does and how it might best be used on Content (if at all).

NS: Somewhat the same as Bruce -- e.g., what happens to the intent
arguments as they get transformed to presentation. The content leaves (ci,
cn, etc.) probably show up in the presentation, but other internal parts
might not have a direct presentation analog so where would they go? Need to
think this through some more.

b) *Potential presentation MathML items to deprecate in MathML 4*
<https://github.com/w3c/mathml/issues/304>

   -

   Deprecate linebreak attribute on mspace

   General agreement


   -

   Deprecate malignmark and maligngroup

   MUS is not here. Decision tabled. Intent replaces this functionality.

   Consider deprecating maction. maction is not in the spec itself;
   therefore, it does not have to be deprecated. We just take it out.

   DC: maction could be used in word.

   PL: Remove the examples and deprecate maction.

   DG: If maction is used in office, we should show an example of this.

   NS: How do we tell if it is used?

   *ACTION* PL: will write to the www-math email list to see if maction is
   used. He will ask if anyone cares if maction goes away.

   SD: Tried to use maction but found that JavaScript worked better.

   BM: There are more modern ways to do maction things.

   NS: maction could be use where JavaScript cannot be used.

   SN: maction is supported in Firefox and Safari.

   *ACTION* PL: will try maction on a Mac (including Safari) and Firefox.