- From: Deyan Ginev <deyan.ginev@gmail.com>
- Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 09:44:58 -0400
- To: www-math@w3.org
Hi all, Quick follow-up here after one brief round of feedback from Neil - the examples have been updated, while also keeping the old ones for comparison. - Tab navigation now works on Chrome + Screen Reader. Combined text+formula narration on-click is now also operational. - Some of the partial vocalizations are improved, though my UX decisions are all tentative/subject to personal taste. These recent changes appear to be working *around* an implementation, rather than improving on the ARIA dialect itself. But the demo is cleaner for it, hopefully we get to discuss it together on July 15th. Same link as before: https://hackmd.io/@dginev/SkBHsZTiO Greetings, Deyan On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 7:15 PM Deyan Ginev <deyan.ginev@gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear all, > > I'm transferring a technical piece of an internal discussion we are > trying to have (about aligning the motivation for the "intent" > attribute within the group), to the public list. > > Moritz has re-made his call to reexamine existing specifications > before inventing our own new markup. I like the sentiment of "not > reinventing the wheel unless we can make it rounder". But I also hope > we can try to make these points in a competitive way -- by showing why > certain methods are better than others when calling for examining > them. > > You may remember my "tiny showcase" has a parallel capability (thanks > to latexml) for generating both an "intent" annotation, as well as a > parallel presentation+content cross-referenced MathML 3 tree, and > indeed can synthesize narration with each variant. That demo is at > [1], and you can try those via the "math format" toggle, say via > converting "\binom{a}{b}". I had tried to make the Content MathML > variant as attractive as possible, but I still am not that fond of it > myself. Just making sure we're making informed choices. > > The second side of the task to "investigate existing specs" is ARIA, > which I think we haven't examined fully as a group yet. > At least I hadn't - I am still learning about the existing AT > universe. Neil had claimed ARIA isn't sophisticated enough to do the > structural expressions we want, such as "binomial-coefficient($1,$2)", > however that seems to be a bit of an understatement, thanks to > "aria-labelledby", as I discovered this weekend. > > What's more - to my own delight - the "aria-describedby" attribute > allows for an inclusion for secondary properties as annotations, and > indeed some existing speech engines make use of these as well. I only > succeeded in using Chrome+Screen Reader this time, so all my > observations are tied to this AT setup. It's funny, since Chrome can't > display the math in my link, but for my demo it can read it > regardless. > > So, with this long introduction, here is a working variant of our > "intent" concept using entirely the existing ARIA and MathML 3, and a > very ordinary HackMD document: > > https://hackmd.io/@dginev/SkBHsZTiO > > There is a lot of friction to be unhappy about > - for a perfect alignment with the intent "speech hints" we would need > AT tools to be able to do smart narrations over the values of > "aria-labelledby", the way they would over the intent expression > values. A common example of that is adding prepositions ("from", "to", > "at", ...) at the right points. > - ARIA requires global ids to make the composition work, and the group > tends to frown on those > - I have too much freedom to annotate in a non-content way and still > get good narration. Empty mrow/mo/mstyle with aria-label? Sure, > anything goes, and in any point in the document - courtesy of global > ids. > - the AT tools are currently a bit fragile. E.g. for some reason the > tab-based navigation doesn't pick up the ARIA attributes at all. > Instead it reads the raw presentation tree. I only got Chrome to read > the ARIA markup when clicking on the nodes using the mouse. > - generally navigating with the keyboard for the AT tool is super > unclear to me as a new user. I really like using tab, but apparently > that is only viable if pretty much everything has a "tabindex" > attribute? Strange. > > But with all the complaints, as a first-time ARIA user, I got the demo > working. So that's nice. And when it works, it can work really well - > hearing subexpressions with the right narration, and then with the > auxiliary property clarified, is very rewarding. > > Greetings, > Deyan > > [1] https://dginev.github.io/tiny-mathml-a11y-demo/
Received on Friday, 2 July 2021 13:46:39 UTC