[minutes] Internationalization TPAC meeting 2017-11-06


text version follows:

                                - DRAFT -

               Internationalization Working Group TPAC 2017

06 Nov 2017


       [2] https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/2017TPACAgenda


           addison, Richard, Fuqiao, (xfq), David, Singer,
           (dsinger), Jeff, J, Junichi

           Addison Phillips



      * [3]Topics
      * [4]Summary of Action Items
      * [5]Summary of Resolutions


       [6] https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/2017TPACAgenda

    <r12a> currently deciding on agenda order

    <addison> addison to request time of html/webplatform to
    discuss universal acceptance

    <scribe> scribenick: xfq

    <chaals> [I will look at webplat/html agenda for that, but
    think we can do it]


       [7] https://www.w3.org/2017/Talks/tpac-slides/tpac2017-i18n/

    r12a: you mentioned you would be on Unicode board, David

    dsinger: right

    r12a: we're finding language experts in the Unicode community
    ... CLDR - Unicode Common Locale Data Repository
    ... it collects dates, times, and other locale-specific data


       [8] https://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/latest/summary/root.html

    r12a: it summarizes what locales are available

    dsinger: the Unicode folks are trying to improve the CLDR tools

    <addison> coverage data in the release announcement:

       [9] http://blog.unicode.org/2017/11/cldr-version-32-released.html

    r12a: how can we access the people who provided the info in
    ... @@@ has an extensive network of people
    ... @@@ are talking about including counter-styles info in CLDR

    <addison> [10]https://www.w3.org/TR/predefined-counter-styles/

      [10] https://www.w3.org/TR/predefined-counter-styles/

    addison: if you click "Arabic", you can see there are many
    kinds of Arabic counter styles


      [11] https://www.w3.org/TR/css-counter-styles-3/#limited-chinese

    r12a: there are some counter styles that do not follow the
    usual algorithm, documented in the CSS spec
    ... would it make sense to make an extension of BCP 47 for
    counter sytles?

    <addison> thanks

    <r12a> descriptions of how 'drop caps' work isn't really

    addison: it would be useful to gather information from the CLDR
    people, even if it doesn't end up in CLDR
    ... gathering information for the gap analysis
    ... we've already see the value in our *lreq work
    ... to be more formal about it is useful, but it takes hours
    ... I suggest that we take effort to contact these folks


      [12] http://w3c.github.io/typography/gap-analysis/language-matrix.html

    addison: The *lreq way was to ask the people to write
    everything about the language
    ... there's another way: use the gap analysis as a basis



    r12a: I mentioned the document (in the link above) in the i18n
    WG teleconference
    ... the information in the gap analysis was not easy to find
    ... especially in the English-speaking community

    <chaals> [WebPlatform can discuss the HTML email issue for 15
    minutes thursday morning under HTML]

    r12a: It's better for people in the layout task forces to say
    what the need is
    ... I think it's a better approach than our previous way
    ... something like a coherent system

    dsinger: meaning of the colors?

    r12a: question mark means we don't know the requirements are
    ... light green means work needed for advance publishing
    ... orange means work still needed for basic features
    ... red means it prevents effective use of the language in web

    dsinger: we need help about these question marks, obviously

    addison: agreed, also need help about other table cells

    <addison> Malgasy -> Malagasy

    dsinger: what does the circles mean (instead of squares)?

    r12a: It means even the English language does not support it,
    for example, the pagination features

    <addison> [14]https://w3c.github.io/typography/

      [14] https://w3c.github.io/typography/

    <addison> [15]https://w3c.github.io/typography/#text_decoration

      [15] https://w3c.github.io/typography/#text_decoration

    r12a: If you look at the International text layout and
    typography index document, you can see how layout features are
    ... the idea is from fantasai
    ... it links to the *lreq documents, CSS specs, tests, and some
    GitHub resources
    ... we have "requests for information", but don't always get
    ... that's why we need experts
    ... we also have the type samples document
    ... it lists pictures in various scripts/languages

    <addison> @chaals: thanks, can you give an approximate time for
    us to come? Or will you do so when the agenda is firmed up?

    <r12a> [16]https://w3c.github.io/type-samples/

      [16] https://w3c.github.io/type-samples/

    <chaals> [9.30 am - it is on the agenda:

      [17] https://github.com/w3c/WebPlatformWG/issues/94

    r12a: we can answer questions in the AC meeting

    addison: and we can explain why it is beneficial to the

    r12a: we can make a sorted table, showing many people speak the
    languages, to show the AC reps the commercial interests
    ... but I'm hesitant to do that, because e.g., Mongolian has
    only 2.5 million speakers, but it has some major problems

    dsinger: What's the problem with Mongolian encoding?

    [r12a explains with the whiteboard]

    <addison> adjourning for coffee for 15 minutes, topic on
    return: charmod-norm









    r12a: This is a very long and complicated article

    [r12a explains some background info to the scribe]

    r12a: the CSS Shim is not really needed
    ... I spoke to the Safari folks during last TPAC about
    supporting the feature (flipping the switch)
    ... nothing has happened yet
    ... I'd also like to talk with the Edge folks this week
    ... the seperation of HTML 4 and 5 techniques are not needed

    <addison> ACTION: richard to add text to inline-bidi-markup
    saying more strongly why not to use the bdo element

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-678 - Add text to inline-bidi-markup
    saying more strongly why not to use the bdo element [on Richard
    Ishida - due 2017-11-13].

    <addison> ACTION: richard to send inline-bidi-markup for wide

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-679 - Send inline-bidi-markup for
    wide review [on Richard Ishida - due 2017-11-13].



    dsinger: so what happens with <span dir=x>text1<span>text2<span

    r12a: @@

    dsinger: I don't get the isolation if I don't add the dir

    addison: yes

    r12a: yes
    ... that's what the article explains

    [Junichi-san asks a question about writing mode in Japanese,
    with the whiteboard]


      [23] https://www.w3.org/International/articles/vertical-text/



    jay: Great. Thank you!

    <addison> (break for lunch)

    r12a: What brought you to the i18n meeting today, Junichi-san?

    jay: We're interested in digital publishing

    <addison> (returned from lunch; next topic is Charmod-Norm)


      [25] https://www.w3.org/2017/Talks/tpac-slides/tpac2017-i18n/#2

    <r12a> good tips on accessible emoji:

      [26] https://tink.uk/accessible-emoji/

    <r12a> [27]https://goo.gl/tjSdk4

      [27] https://goo.gl/tjSdk4

    <r12a> pagination with CSS 1.30pm tues

    <addison> (and returned from visiting #pwg

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: richard to add text to inline-bidi-markup saying
    more strongly why not to use the bdo element
    [NEW] ACTION: richard to send inline-bidi-markup for wide

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]

Received on Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:43:59 UTC