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[minutes] Internationalization telecon 2017-10-19

From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 17:44:27 +0100
To: www International <www-international@w3.org>
Message-ID: <0a35af74-43b0-294b-4fc3-020f61ec2a24@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html







text extract follows:


- DRAFT -

            Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

19 Oct 2017

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2017Oct/0014.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Bert, Fuqiao, r12a, addison, JcK, Andrew

    Regrets
           David, Jan

    Chair
           Addison Phillips

    Scribe
           Addison Phillips

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Agenda
          2. [6]Action Items
          3. [7]Info Share
          4. [8]Radar
          5. [9]DNT review, old DNT comment review
          6. [10]Low vision needs pending
          7. [11]Charmod
          8. [12]Low vision needs pending
          9. [13]AOB?
      * [14]Summary of Action Items
      * [15]Summary of Resolutions
      __________________________________________________________

    <scribe> ScribeNick: addison

    <scribe> Scribe: Addison Phillips

Agenda

Action Items

    action-658?

    <trackbot> action-658 -- Richard Ishida to Look for latin text
    with dot or macron below that could cause problems for
    underline -- due 2017-10-05 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [16]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/658

      [16] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/658

    richard: done, here's a link

    <r12a>
    [17]https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/1288#issuecommen
    t-337883369

      [17] 
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/1288#issuecomment-337883369

    close action-658

    <trackbot> Closed action-658.

    richard: one of the things I needed was way to find which
    languages use dot-below
    ... didn't find a way to query
    ... apart from decode unicode

    addison: look at cldr?

    richard: don't have a way to query by character
    ... might bake something of my own

    action-662?

    <trackbot> action-662 -- Addison Phillips to Review dnt and
    sent an all-clear status to that wg unless something found --
    due 2017-10-19 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [18]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/662

      [18] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/662

    close action-662

    <trackbot> Closed action-662.

    action-665?

    <trackbot> action-665 -- Richard Ishida to Get behnam to
    forward 497 to the utr53 pri -- due 2017-10-19 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [19]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/665

      [19] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/665

    close action-665

    <trackbot> Closed action-665.

    richard: he forwarded everything, not just the one

    action-666?

    <trackbot> action-666 -- Addison Phillips to Talk to unicode
    folks about ways to cross-pollinate between our groups -- due
    2017-10-19 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [20]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/666

      [20] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/666

    addison: talked to Mark Davis, suggestion of CLDR-TC

    close action-666

    <trackbot> Closed action-666.

    action-668?

    <trackbot> action-668 -- Richard Ishida to Set up wiki in our
    repo to capture ideas for engaging folks with our questions --
    due 2017-10-19 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [21]http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/668

      [21] http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/668

    richard: suggested we just do member- email instead
    ... assuming that works

    close action-668

    <trackbot> Closed action-668.

    bert: one suggestion for that is there may be others who have
    similar questions or problems
    ... maybe ask other groups
    ... see if they have ideas

    addison: ask generally? like on chairs?

    <scribe> ACTION: addison to ping various chairs or the chairs
    list for ideas on engaging [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

      [22] http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html#action01

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-669 - Ping various chairs or the
    chairs list for ideas on engaging [on Addison Phillips - due
    2017-10-26].

    <scribe> ACTION: addison to remind members to send ideas about
    how to find experts to member list [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

      [23] http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html#action02

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-670 - Remind members to send ideas
    about how to find experts to member list [on Addison Phillips -
    due 2017-10-26].

Info Share

Radar

    [24]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/1

      [24] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/1

    [25]http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/

      [25] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/

    addison: having a hard time finding the matrix

    <r12a>
    [26]http://w3c.github.io/typography/gap-analysis/language-matri
    x.html

      [26] http://w3c.github.io/typography/gap-analysis/language-matrix.html

DNT review, old DNT comment review

    <r12a> [27]http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/

      [27] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/

    <r12a>
    [28]http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#tracking-dnt

      [28] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#tracking-dnt

    [29]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&
    q=is%3Aissue%20is%3Aopen%20label%3Atracking-dnt

      [29] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?utf8=✓&q=is:issue 
is:open label:tracking-dnt

    richard: discovered we had issues, no reply to them on their
    mailing list
    ... second thing was that people started answering the
    questions/discussion in *our* tracker
    ... rather than on their list
    ... so removed 'pending' labels
    ... and created on their list

    addison: are they tracked there?

    [30]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/508

      [30] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/508

    [31]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/509

      [31] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/509

    richard: dsinger's suggestion goes back to string-meta
    ... requires every string to start with a tag

    addison: have to parse every string to find out the language

    [32]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/510

      [32] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/510

    [33]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/34

      [33] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/34

    richard: looked at latest version of spec

    potential for close?

    [34]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/35

      [34] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/35

    close (same as 508)

    <r12a> [35]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/36

      [35] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/36

    addison: I no longer thing this issue is a good one

    [36]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/35

      [36] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/35

    [37]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/37

      [37] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/37

    editorial

    close

    [38]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/38

      [38] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/38

    addison: intended to be an ID that is not intended to be human
    readable

    jck: non-ascii identifiers add to confusion or danger

    The status-id has been intentionally limited to a small set of
    characters to encourage use of short tokens instead of
    potentially long, human-readable strings.

    jck: could let go

    addison: think we should let go

    [39]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/39

      [39] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/39

    addison: 7.4.2 needs same health warning about status-id?

    bert: links to previous section

    addison: kill or keep?

    bert: kill

    richard: if it is saying that they are just status id's then
    things are okay
    ... not a general URI

    addison: location is not arbitrary

    bert: can send a redirect

    addison: but that could be any URI

    richard: close them all then
    ... worth asking them why these comments went unanswered for
    years

    bert: could be contacts changed?
    ... can ask

    richard: curious how fell through cracks

    <scribe> ACTION: richard to close all dnt issues that need
    close [recorded in
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

      [40] http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html#action03

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-671 - Close all dnt issues that need
    close [on Richard Ishida - due 2017-10-26].

Low vision needs pending

Charmod

    richard: how should I deal with charmod?
    ... went through and spent more time doing editorial
    improvements
    ... raised issues
    ... part of me wondered fi to raise issues
    ... versus PR
    ... so how to proceed

Low vision needs pending

    [41]http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/

      [41] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/

    <r12a>
    [42]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is
    %3Aopen+label%3Alow-vision-needs

      [42] 
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:low-vision-needs

    <r12a>
    [43]http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#low-vision-need
    s

      [43] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#low-vision-needs

    [44]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/500

      [44] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/500

    richard: very similar to wcag review I performed recently
    ... text is very close

    <r12a> [45]http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#wcag

      [45] http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#wcag

    richard: here's a link to those:
    ... low vision doc is just requirements
    ... wcag doc says "in context of content dev for use, this is
    how reqs translate"
    ... raised a number of questions that also apply to low vision
    doc
    ... haven't cross-ref

    bert: make links?

    richard: but carefully
    ... wcag->low vision maybe more than vice versa
    ... use in wcag is more targetted
    ... "languages that use left-to-right scripts"

    accept

    [46]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/501

      [46] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/501

    addison: writing mode problem?

    richard: look at terse statements, speaking from memory
    ... how to express those concepts
    ... think they took advice
    ... just examples

    <r12a> User Need - Rewrap:

    <r12a> Blocks of text rewrap so that only one direction of
    scrolling is needed, e.g., for left-right and right-left
    scripts (languages), usually vertical scrolling and not
    horizontal scrolling.

    okay

    [47]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/502

      [47] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/502

    richard: back on 501, consider this on vertical too
    ... 502, don't know, think interesting question
    ... small forms for syllables for kya and such
    ... forms for dealing with small letters, soetimes prevent from
    happening at start of line
    ... maybe consider
    ... lot of complex scripts are based on syllables
    ... so maybe not so bad?

    andrew: grapheme clusters within a syllable

    richard: didn't say grapheme clusters because of that problem

    andrew: some browsers break on clusters

    richard: keep syllables together
    ... could prevent mid-word breaks

    bert: two parts of word not next to each other

    richard: not hyph, but breaking words in our view
    ... don't know offhand how that applies but quote possible it
    does

    [48]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/503

      [48] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/503

    seems valid

    richard: maybe phrasing
    ... bold isn't easy to read because harder to read

    addison: or italics!

    richard: doesn't talk about emphasis but rather styling
    ... underline definitely preferred
    ... in certain scripts
    ... need to say "allow users to change bold/italic/underline to
    culturally preferred idioms"
    ... to make easier to read

    [49]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/511

      [49] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/511

    richard: worried they linked there
    ... not aware of our articles
    ... ?

AOB?

    addison: will work on encoding tomorrow

    <r12a> s///

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: addison to ping various chairs or the chairs list
    for ideas on engaging [recorded in
    [50]http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: addison to remind members to send ideas about how
    to find experts to member list [recorded in
    [51]http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: richard to close all dnt issues that need close
    [recorded in
    [52]http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

      [50] http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html#action01
      [51] http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html#action02
      [52] http://www.w3.org/2017/10/19-i18n-minutes.html#action03

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 19 October 2017 16:47:41 UTC

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