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Re: Encoding Standard at F2F

From: Ishii, Koji a | Koji | EBJB <koji.a.ishii@mail.rakuten.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 22:56:01 +0000
To: Jungshik SHIN (신정식) <jshin1987@gmail.com>
CC: Norbert Lindenberg <w3@norbertlindenberg.com>, Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl>, "www-international@w3.org" <www-international@w3.org>
Message-ID: <172F97B0-7D3F-4461-B158-5DDF7E998253@mail.rakuten.com>
Yeah, I understand you're talking about KR, not JP. Sorry if I look not.

But my point is, Trident or Gecko can be used in e-mail programs. If iso-2022-KR is still used on e-mails, even if you do not see in web pages, wouldn't it be better to include?

2012/11/04 14:21、"Jungshik SHIN (신정식)" <jshin1987@gmail.com<mailto:jshin1987@gmail.com>> のメッセージ:

On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Norbert Lindenberg <w3@norbertlindenberg.com<mailto:w3@norbertlindenberg.com>> wrote:
What about email archives on the web? I'd be surprised if there weren't any that just take the bytes of subjects and bodies of email messages and stuff them into HTML frames. Even Yahoo Mail and Hotmail did that until a few years ago.

It's very unfortunate that two major web mail services had been broken in such a horrible way until a few years ago. ;-)  It's good for everybody that they have been fixed since.

Anyway, I don't think that a potential existence of antiquated/broken email (list) archiving programs is a good justification to keep ISO-2022-KR (and GB-HZ).

BTW, when ISO-2022-KR was around in 1990's, the dominant MUA of the time (sendmail) was patched (or combined with MDAs like procmail), at most Korean Unix hosts, to convert incoming emails in ISO-2022-KR to EUC-KR. So, the number of emails kept in ISO-2022-KR at mail(ing list) archives is much smaller than the actual number of emails exchanged in ISO-2022-KR.



On Nov 4, 2012, at 19:23 , Ishii, Koji a | Koji | EBJB wrote:

> I think the spec should cover all relevant technologies around W3C, not only the web pages. I know little about how often ISO-2022-KR is used in other places than Web, but you should also pay attention to e-mail and other careers of W3C technologies.
> Microsoft once disabled automatic detection of ISO-2022-JP in MS10-090 for the security concern but turned it on again inMS11-003 due to its bad impact. As you said and as Kuro confirmed, ISO-2022-JP is still an important encoding for the W3C to support.
> Are you sure ISO-2022-KR and GB-HZ are not, considering all places W3C technologies are used including e-mail, TV, etc.?
> Regards,
> Koji
> From: Jungshik SHIN (신정식) [mailto:jshin1987@gmail.com<mailto:jshin1987@gmail.com>]
> Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 12:20 PM
> To: Anne van Kesteren
> Cc: www-international@w3.org<mailto:www-international@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Encoding Standard at F2F
> Hi,
> Thank you for the note.
> I wonder what consideration has been given to the inclusion of ISO-2022-KR and GB-HZ, two 7-bit encodings that are extremely rare on the web (if used at all) and are 'security risks' (in a sense) like other 7-bit encodings (e.g. UTF-7 that is not included).
> We cannot drop ISO-2022-JP lightly because it's still used somewhere even though it's much less widely used than EUC-JP or Shift-JIS.
> OTOH, ISO-2022-KR has never been meant for the web and it's safe to say that virtually no web page uses it. It's designed for emails (RFC 1557) in early 1990's and it got out of favor  even for emails in late 1990's because either EUC-KR (later UTF-8) with 8bit ESMTP or EUC-KR with base64/qp worked just fine. For web pages, there's absolutely no reason to use ISO-2022-KR from the beginning and it's not used.
> For the last 20 years, I've seen web pages (other than test pages) in that encoding only once or twice. I'm a Korean speaker and I've visited numerous web pages.
> To a slightly less extent, the same should hold for GB-HZ. It started its life to use in Usenet (and email), but using that on the web does not make much sense. I can't say about GB-HZ as strongly as about ISO-2022-KR, but my experience with Chrome development (below) is an indication that it's virtually unused.
> Chrome didn't support either of them until about 2 years ago. They're added mainly because of http://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/  IIRC.  When neither is supported, I haven't had any complaint from Chrome users.
> Jungshik
> 2012. 11. 3. 오전 7:31에 "Anne van Kesteren" <annevk@annevk.nl<mailto:annevk@annevk.nl>>님이 작성:
> I joined the I18N WG for an hour or so at their F2F in TPAC to discuss
> http://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/

> We basically went through the document for a high-level overview of
> what it attempts to do. We also concluded it is good enough to publish
> as a FPWD, provided someone in the I18N WG has the time to do the
> switch in style (from green to blue).
> Based on feedback from Richard Ishida and Kawabata Taichi during that
> meeting I filed these bugs:
> * https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19816

> * https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19817

> If there was any other feedback during that session I failed to
> capture I would appreciate if you could help me out. Issues with the
> specification are best recorded in Bugzilla:
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=WHATWG&component=Encoding

> --
> http://annevankesteren.nl/


Received on Sunday, 4 November 2012 22:56:33 UTC

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