- From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:27:17 -0000
- To: "'CE Whitehead'" <cewcathar@hotmail.com>
- Cc: <www-international@w3.org>
I added some links to tutorials on both character encoding and text direction. Thanks. Btw, note that you should base comments on the editor's version [1] of that document, since it has moved on a considerable way from the last published version, which is what you point to in your email. RI [1] http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html#ri20050208.0936 46470 ============ Richard Ishida Internationalization Lead W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ http://www.w3.org/International/ http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/ > -----Original Message----- > From: CE Whitehead [mailto:cewcathar@hotmail.com] > Sent: 13 March 2007 17:30 > To: ishida@w3.org > Cc: www-international@w3.org > Subject: RE: Comment on working draft "Specifying Language in > XHTML and HTML Content" > > It might be a good idea to include a link to the URL you sent me to > (http://www.w3.org/International/articles/inline-bidi-markup/) > in paragraph 4 of section 3.3 > of your document (Internationalization Best Practices > http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-i18n-html-tech-lang-20060721/)-- > > "In some scripts, such as Arabic and Hebrew, text runs > predominantly from right to left. Within that flow, numbers > and text from other scripts run from left to right. It is > important to adequately specify the intended directionality > of text in a document." {Add a note, "see <a href="">'What > You Need to Know . . . '"</a>} > > (I assume then that when images of Arabic or Hebrew typed are > transformed back into text--perhaps we are not at that stage > with these languages yet--that the software that transforms > the images to text will have to mark up or reverse any numbers.) > > > --C. E. Whitehead > cewcathar@hotmail.com > > > >Mr Whitehead, please read > >http://www.w3.org/International/articles/inline-bidi-markup/ for > >information about how the bidirectional algorithm and markup work > >together. > > > >RI > > > >============ > >Richard Ishida > >Internationalization Lead > >W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) > > > >http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ > >http://www.w3.org/International/ > >http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/ > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: www-international-request@w3.org > > > [mailto:www-international-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of CE > Whitehead > > > Sent: 11 March 2007 19:50 > > > To: rosennej@qsm.co.il; www-international@w3.org > > > Subject: RE: Comment on working draft "Specifying > Language in XHTML > > > and HTML Content" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, regarding the suggestion to change Azerbaijani, generally > > > language codes are two-letter; some are three-letter; otherwise > > > you'd have a variant and I would not think a variant would be > > > appropriate, but anyway, this discussion belongs on another list. > > > > > > (Sorry.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > I think Azerbaijani is coded az: > > > > > > > > > > Type: language > > > > > Subtag: az > > > > > Description: Azerbaijani > > > > > Added: 2005-10-16 > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry) > > > > > > > >Yes, it does say so, but it seems to be a mistake. I believe > > > we should > > > >ask the people concerned what is their preference. I have > > > submitted the > > > >question to CLDR. > > > > > > > >See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijanis > > > > > > > >The French locale has azéri > > > > > > > >http://unicode.org/cldr/apps/survey?_=fr&x=languages&skip=80# > >Unconfirme > > > >d > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for numerals in Arabic, they do run left-to-right as > > > they do in > > > > > English, while Arabic text runs right-to-left. > > > > > > > > > > according to the document below, the numbers do not > > > > > automatically get displayed properly: > > > > > http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-css3-text-20030226/#Progression > > > > > .date {writing-mode: lr-tb;} > > > > > <span class="date">1996</span> > > > > > > > > > > I'll have to let someone else speak more on numerals > > > embedded in non > > > > > left-to-right scripts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Note: Even when the inline-progression is left-to-right or > > > >right-to-left, some or all of the content within a given > > > element might > > > >advance in the opposite direction because of the Unicode > [UNICODE] > > > >bidirectional algorithm or because of explicit text advance > > > overrides > > > >due to this property or 'direction' and 'unicode-bidi'. " > > > > > > > > > > >For numbers, the inversion is implicit. > > > > > > (Is the inversion implicit ?? When you type on an Arabic > typewriter, > > > I guess you start typing numerals beginning with the 1's, > then the > > > 10's, then the 100's--I've never typed numerals on an Arabic > > > typewriter though [a poem once I typed, that was written by > > > al-Khansa, that I found in Arberry, and that I needed to markup.]) > > > > > > I'm really a novice at the rules for when you have to specify > > > directionality as it's implicit if the language is English or > > > French; but numerals in both English and the computer > world normally > > > are thought of as running from the big numbers, 1000's, > then 100's, > > > then 10's, then 1's, say, that is, from left-to-right, and Arabic > > > runs right-to-left. > > > > > > If you've specified the language as Arabic you have reversed the > > > directionality. > > > > > > So I do not know. > > > > > > (It might be nice to have directionality for numerals > implicit, but > > > . . . if I used numbers more often in my texts maybe I'd > have more > > > to say on this; thanks so very very much. ) > > > > > > Let's wait to see if Richard Ishida has anything to add to this > > > discussion here. > > > > > > > >Jony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (I'm really still pretty novice, I think.) > > > > > > > > > > --C. E. Whitehead > > > > > cewcathar@hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Clause 3.3 Relationships between language, character > > > encoding and > > > > > >directionality > > > > > > > > > > > >The 4th paragraph is misleading. One might get the > > > > > impression that bidi > > > > > >tags > > > > > >are required for numbers. I suggest that the second sentence > > > > > be deleted. > > > > > > > > > > > >"Similarly" in the 5th paragraph is not very clear. > > > Similar to what? > > > > > >And shouldn't it be "Azeri"? > > > > > > > > > > > >Clause 4.2 Attributes or metadata? > > > > > > > > > > > >I would like to add that often the author is not able to > > > > > >control the metadata. It is handled by the server, > and in any > > > > > >large organization the bureaucratic obstacles make it too > > > difficult for > > > > > >most authors to manage, even if they are aware of it, > > > which they may not be. > > > > > > You can easily write something in the meta element > specifying the > > > content language if you write in html; in addition many > applications > > > will insert a content language now and you have the option of > > > setting that just as you do in Word (though Word does not produce > > > the nicest html markup; it depends what you want). > > > > > > Otherwise, yes you have to go into the source code to insert the > > > text processing language for the document. (the most > important one > > > to set it seems may be the language in the html tag). > > > You have to have access to server settings if you want to set the > > > language in the headers that the server puts on. > > > > > > That's basically what that draft says. > > > > > > (It is very easy to get convoluted when you write > something long, as > > > I should know, and that is my main criticism of that > draft, it gets > > > a bit convoluted here and there) > > > > > > > > > > > >Jony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying > Too Much? > > > Calculate new payment > > > http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18 > >226&moid=7581 > > > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this outgoing message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/718 - Release Date: > >11/03/2007 > >09:27 > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too > Much? Calculate new payment > http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18 226&moid=7581 > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 13/03/2007 16:51
Received on Wednesday, 14 March 2007 13:27:30 UTC