W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-html@w3.org > May 2007

Re: code, samp, kbd, var

From: Tina Holmboe <tina@greytower.net>
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 00:08:00 +0200
To: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Cc: Lachlan Hunt <lachlan.hunt@lachy.id.au>, www-html@w3.org
Message-ID: <20070515220800.GD3001@greytower.net>

On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 07:56:59PM +0000, Ian Hickson wrote:

> On Tue, 15 May 2007, Tina Holmboe wrote:
> > 
> > So HTML 5 should, as opposed to HTML 4, become a *mix* of a 
> > presentational and structural language?
> > 
> > Frankly, I wish you'd try to see the other side of this debate, Lachlan. 
> > I have, since 1995, taught people that HTML is a *structural* language 
> > and we are gaining ground. Slowly, perhaps, but we are getting there, 
> > and as others have pointed out: it is /improving/* accessibility.
> > 
> > HTML 5 is going to turn that upside down - and, yes, I do admit that I 
> > am slightly bitter that twelve years of trying to impart something of 
> > structure, semantics, and accessibility is going to be tossed down the 
> > drain for the sake of, frankly, misguided 'pragmatism'.
> For what it's worth, I actually agree with _you_, Tina. In fact in HTML5 

  That does cheer me up - but I'm not sure we actually refer to the same

  During the debate regarding HTML 5 it has, by several people, been
  claimed, repeatedly, that presentational elements - all of them - will
  be added to the new language as time go by.

  This might just be a prevailent misunderstand from their side; atleast
  I hope it is. Adding presentational elements and marking them as
  "conforming but not advisable" will create a teacher's nightmare: how
  to explain that something IS a standard but shouldn't be used?

  But it's a different topic.

> as it stands today the <i>, <b>, and <small> elements are not 
> presentational. They stand for mood changes and other text that is neither 

  Not the choice I'd have made; nor the choice I wish the WG would
  make. The problem is, of course, that all three have established
  use - I quoted one example of why <b> cannot be unambigously
  interpreted as anything but presentational - that is not 
  compatible with the 'new' interpretation.

  Adding elements for this kind of 'mood' change is a good idea, but
  overloading old ones is not.

  And then there is <m> ...

 -  Tina Holmboe      Developer's Archive           Greytower Technologies
                   http://www.dev-archive.net      http://www.greytower.net    
Received on Tuesday, 15 May 2007 22:08:09 UTC

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