- From: Chris Mannall <chris.mannall@hecubagames.com>
- Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 15:03:05 +0100
- To: www-html@w3.org
XHTML 2.0 Working Draft Comments
================================
4 The XHTML 2.0 Document Type
-----------------------------
The listing for the Server-side Image Map Module says "Attribute ismap
on img" - the img element doesn't exist any more, this should read
"Attribute ismap on object". There are also other references to "img"
under section 12 and section 19.
6.1 Core Attribute Collection
-----------------------------
The example given for the class attribute is invalid - judging from the
surrounding text, the (unclosed) span element needs to removed and its
class attribute moved to the enclosing p element.
8.6 The cite element
--------------------
At a purely aesthetic level, <cite cite=""></cite> gnaws at my
sensibilities. Is there a better name for that attribute? "reference"
maybe? Or even use the href attribute imported as part of the hypertext
attribute group?
8.11 The heading elements
-------------------------
Is it necessary to have two forms of heading? Bearing in mind that the
combination of h and section is recommended over the traditional hX
elements, I don't see why both are required. Can the hX elements not be
deprecated?
If it's really necessary to retain the functionality of the hX elements,
could we not instead have something like this?:
<h level="1">Equivalent of h1</h>
<h level="2">Equivalent of h2</h>
<h level="3">Equivalent of h3</h>
etc.
8.9 The div element and 8.19 The span element
------------------- ---------------------
Reading the descriptions of these elements, I have to wonder why both
are necessary. Since the descriptions of both state that "this element
imposes no presentational idioms on the content", the only difference
between the two is that one is defined as "inline" content and one is
defined as "flow" content. One could argue that this distinction is
mostly presentational anyway... there's no reason why a single element
could not be used for both purposes, for example:
<div>
<p>The enclosing div is a "block" element.</p>
<p>Whereas <div>this one</div> is a flow element.</p>
</div>
The intended difference in presentation here is easily handled using CSS
mechanisms:
div { display:block; }
p > div { display:inline; }
8.13 The line element
---------------------
"The line element represents a sub-paragraph."
I really dislike this description. The line element clearly represents a
line! If there were such a notion as a "sub-paragraph" (which I must say
I've never come across before), what is wrong with nested p elements?
Also, it may be worth noting that, without any stylesheet rules to the
contrary, the example would be rendered with only a single character of
whitespace at the start of the third line.
8.14 The p element
------------------
"In comparison with earlier versions of HTML, where a paragraph
could only contain inline text, XHTML2's paragraphs represent the
conceptual idea of a paragraph, and so may contain lists,
blockquotes, pre's and tables as well as inline text."
Could I ask what the working group's reasons are for this change?
Although I have not yet sat down to come up with a concrete argument
against, my gut
instinct is to strongly dislike this change. I can understand the idea
of a paragraph containing a list (and in fact I used to do this in my
pre-valid
markup days), but a table inside a paragraph? A blockquote inside a
paragraph? Neither of these last two "feel" correct to me.
8.16 The quote element and 8.4 The blockquote element
---------------------- --------------------------
Based on the fact that blockquotes are now allowable inside a p element,
is it really necessary to have two elements? It seems to me that once
again the only difference between these two is that one is "inline", one
is "flow"... which strikes me as a presentational difference that should
be left to stylesheets:
quote { display: block; }
p quote { display: inline; }
9 XHTML Hypertext Module
------------------------
May I ask why XHTML 2.0 isn't using the generic mechanisms described in
XLink? I find it strange that XLink - a W3C Recommendation with some
implementations (albeit generally limited ones), is not being used or
even mentioned, whereas XForms - which is still only a W3C Working Draft
- is a requirement for an XHTML2.0 implementation.
9.1 The a element
-----------------
"Authors may also create an a element that specifies no anchors,
i.e., that doesn't specify href, or id."
Why are anchors without the href attribute required at all? There is no
need for so-called "named anchors" anymore, since the id attribute of
any element can be used for this purpose. The example given of having an
a element with neither href or id attributes is particularly dubious - I
can't think of any circumstances where one would want to wait until
scripting runtime to assign these attributes.
18.1 The noscript element
-------------------------
Is this element necessary? Shouldn't the onus be on document authors and
script authors to ensure that documents function appropriately whether
scripts are executed or not? The functionality of noscript (only
rendering certain content when scripts are unavailable) is easily
duplicated by approaching the problem from the other direction:
<div id="noscript">
<p>Only displayed when the script below can't run.</p>
</div>
<script type="text/javascript">
document.getElementById("noscript").style.display="none";
</script>
18.2 The script element
-----------------------
Is there any chance that we can start the process of renaming "src"
attributes to "href" attributes (or vice versa)? The distinction is both
unnecessary and unclear - someone once made the argument to me that src
is used when the resource is to be included directly included into the
document, and href when the resource is something being pointed to as
some form of relation, but examination of HTML and XHTML specs doesn't
agree with this argument. If this were the case, then I suppose I could
tolerate the difference between the two... without this semantic
difference, I can see no reason whatsoever to have two different attributes.
It may also be worth highlighting the fact that scripts may need to be
wrapped in <![CDATA[ and ]]> declarations if those scripts contain
operators conflicting with certain aspects of XML (e.g. <, > operators).
The same is true of inline stylesheets.
21.3.3 Sample table
-------------------
The graphic at the end of this section does not match the example code.
Conclusion
==========
Overall, although I have seen some welcome developments in this working
draft, on the whole I must admit to being somewhat disappointed.
Despitethe disclaimer that XHTML2.0 is not intended as being
backwards-compatible with previous version of HTML and XHTML, the only
thing that jumped out of me as causing this is the move to XForms.
Consider that (for about the past year to my recollection) the HTML
Working Group's roadmap has contained the following note about the
intended direction of XHTML 2.0:
"The objective of these changes is to ensure that XHTML 2.0
can be readily supported by XML browsers that have no arcane
knowledge of XHTML semantics such as linking, image maps,
forms, etc."
Unfortunately, the working draft I have just read doesn't even come
close to reaching this objective. Granted, the move to XForms is a step
forward in this regard, but "arcane knowledge" is still very much the
order of the day since linking, images (via the object element) and
image maps are still an intrinsic part of XHTML itself rather than being
farmed-out to XLink.
Chris Mannall.
Received on Tuesday, 6 August 2002 10:14:43 UTC