[D3E] minutes from 13 May 2014 call

The minutes from the May 13 D3E call are in the following (and copied 
below):

<http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-webapps-minutes.html>

-AB

W3C <http://www.w3.org/>


  - DRAFT -


  SV_MEETING_TITLE


    14 May 2014

See also:IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-webapps-irc>


    Attendees

Present
    [Microsoft], +1.425.936.aaaa, garykac, Travis
Regrets
Chair
    SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
    travis


    Contents

  * Topics <http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-webapps-minutes.html#agenda>
     1. reviewing last few bugs :-)
        <http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-webapps-minutes.html#item01>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-webapps-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

RRSAgent: this meeting spans midnight

RRSAgent: make logs public

<masayuki> Hello.

masayuki:welcome!

Bug 
list:https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=DOM3%20Events&list_id=36781&product=WebAppsWG&resolution=---

Gary and I worked a little this past week on some of the bugs, and got 
down to 7 last night :-)

<scribe> scribe: travis

<scribe> scribenick: travis


      reviewing last few bugs :-)

First bug we'd like to talk about 
is:https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25485

This bug concerns the overlap between DOM L3 and DOM4's definition of 
the eventing system (model)

<garykac> If we remove the stuff covered in DOM4, then we remove 
Sections 3 and 4 (and a lot of glossary items)

<garykac> Before doing that, we'd need to check with them and run a 
check to make sure that we don't have anything that should be added to 
their spec.

I'm not married to any of the content in those old sections; it might be 
best for the web community to only have a single source of info for the 
'official' definition of how the event model works.

<garykac> We (D3E) would probably keep all the deprecated stuff in the 
appendices (unfortunately).

Gary and I reviewed the DOM4 spec briefly and it looks fairly complete, 
though we want to double-check.

<garykac> travis: agreed

<garykac> We should compose an email and send it to the list

<garykac> Should we try to compose a draft here?

I think the essense of the draft will be what we think are the 
duplicated parts, and a proposal of how the spec would look without them?

<garykac> We should also call attention to the spec dependency graph: 
HTML5 -> D3E -> DOM4 (since we would now depend on DOM4)

Yes, it seems a little odd conceptually, but might be OK given 
everyone's understanding of how this stuff happened historically.

If we don't eliminate the redundancy, then we need to be certain that 
our spec and DOM4 are semantically equivalent.

(We use prose descriptions, DOM4 uses algorithms--a little hard to 
rationalize the difference, but it can be done.)

<garykac>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VqwfHyNDtoOoDzZZ7xZlrcxtcy8ZORV1pUoRjRbwJro/edit

<garykac> OK. The doc looks like a first draft

<garykac> We should sleep on it and review tomorrow-ish and then send it 
out to the MLs.

<garykac> masayuki: Did you see the update 
tohttps://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23908

<garykac> We'd like to have a more accurate description than "default 
keyboard layout" since we're not sure that it defaults to US.

<masayuki_> garykac: Yeah, but I don't know the answer of the last 
question, though.

<masayuki_> On Mac, "current ASCII capable keyboard layout" is the last 
selected ASCII capable keyboard layout.

<garykac> "last selected" - ick

Very interesting.

<garykac> I doubt that's something that is consistent cross-platform

<masayuki_> On Windows, we can just ignore Kana-Lock state for Japanese. 
I'm not sure about Korean and Chinese.

scribe:and when there is no previously selected ASCII capable keyboard 
layout, then there needs to be a fallback, right?

<masayuki_> Travis: I guess that the first ASCII capable keyboard layout 
in the keyboard layout list is used.

<garykac> I wonder what it would do if the "last seleced" keyboard 
layout didn't support the key being pressed (eg: last keyboard = US; key 
pressed = UK backslash)

<garykac> (or the 'ro' key on a Japanese keyboard)

<garykac> (ろ)

<masayuki_> Good point. However, US keyboard layout on Mac is a special 
keyboard layout. It changes input character by physical keyboard type!

<masayuki_> E.g., "Quote" key inputs : with JIS keyboard but ' with ANSI 
keyboard, :-(

<masayuki_> Like that, "IntlRo" key inputs \.

Gary and I are inclined to leave the current text there (it was our best 
effort given what we know) and are welcome to improve the text as new 
information comes available.

<masayuki_> Anyway, if D3E spec defines keydown and keyup shouldn't be 
fired during composition, this issue may be WONTFIX.

It does matter during Ctrl/Meta key combinations though.

<garykac> These key combinations will occur outside of composition sessions

Despite this, I'd still like to resolve the bug "fixed" for now.

<garykac> I think that it's as Fixed as we're likely to get it in the 
near future.

<garykac> If it is an issue, we can revisit in UI Events

<masayuki_> We don't need to worry about Meta key. On Mac, during 
pressing Meta key causes ASCII capable keyboard's character is passed by 
NSEvent.

<masayuki_> I.e., browsers should just honor the OS's event.

<garykac> I'm hoping that in all these cases, the browser can simply 
return what the OS provides.

Yep, that would be great.

<garykac> I don't want them to create goofy mapping tables to fix this 
problem.

(We just wanted to try and write that into the spec, but it baffled us a 
bit...)

<masayuki_> Pressing Ctrl key causes a control character code (< 0x20) 
on all OSes.

Ctrl+[some character] uses the ASCII capable layout though--that's what 
we were comparing to Meta.

<masayuki_> Travis: yes. I think that browsers should use same character 
as native application's shortcut key handling.

Agree.

<garykac> sgtm

We are out of time

<garykac> same time/place next week

Yep. Hopefully with only 1 or 2 bugs left!

Thanks all!

<masayuki_> Even with Kana is locked on Windows, Ctrl + ASCII character 
shortcut work fine on Windows.

<masayuki_> Thanks!

RRSAgent: please generate the mintues

RRSAgent: please make the minutes

RRSAgent: make logs public

RRSAgent: make the minutes


    Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]
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Received on Wednesday, 21 May 2014 11:34:30 UTC