- From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:45:52 -0400
- To: "www-dom@w3.org" <www-dom@w3.org>
Hi, DOM3 Events Folks-
Here are the minutes for the 28 October 2009 DOM3 Events Telcon:
http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html
Or as text below:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
28 Oct 2009
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2009OctDec/0078.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-irc
Attendees
Present
[Microsoft], Shepazu, yngve, smaug, +358.407.37aaaa, khiitola
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
Travis
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]DOM3 Events in VoiceXML
2. [6]I18n telcon
3. [7]-ms-styleContentLoaded
4. [8]detail attributes of resize event.
5. [9]default actions triggered by programmatic dispatch
6. [10]Ninja Dispatch
7. [11]5.1.1: "this event must not be triggered".
* [12]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 28 October 2009
<smaug> yngve?
<smaug> Zakim ??P1 is me
<scribe> scribe: Travis
<scribe> scribeNick: Travis
<smaug> khiitola: ping
shepazu: Who's going to TPAC?
I am.
smaug: No.
<khiitola> smaug: pong.
<smaug> khiitola: the telco is now, if you want to join
shepazu: mmm.
<khiitola> Thanks. Trying to decipher what's happening here. (sorry,
I'm a newbie)
khiitola: Here to talk about touch/gesture at your convenience
shepazu: I've thought about putting touch/gesture into DOM L4
events.
... but have been advised to put it into its own spec.
... many companies have IP in this area and could be a minefeild.
... We're still not done with Dom L3 Events, so want to keep focus
there.
... Folks are free to discuss on the list, but may not get much
traction.
... khiitola does this fit your timeframe?
khiitola: Would love something sooner, but willing to live with the
group's decision.
shepazu: Naturally, I'm don't have to be the editor...
khiitola: I vote for smaug
smaug: Hmm. very funny.
shepazu: Also very busy...
... Let's hit the agenda, and then come back to Touch stuff.
DOM3 Events in VoiceXML
shepazu: Spoke with International folks and VoicXML team recently.
... "Visual browser" preferred in that Working group ;-)
... They are using DOM L3 Events in an unorthedox way.
... May be able converge XML+V into D3E.
... Here's how they use D3E:
... No script (all declarative). For a document, the capture phase
is used to determine a catch handler.
... Any catch handler (on a proximal event target) gets accumulated.
... Very similar to how a UA registered event handlers in the markup
during parsing.
... Subtle differences: Only one handler will get invoked (not all
possible handlers).
... Their algorithm selects the most appropriate event given current
context.
... They asked whether it's reasonable to use D3E for their
technique.
... Jury's still out.
smaug: MS has SALT... similar to XML+V -- and more similar to what
visual browsers do.
shepazu: What if there was a SALT-like profile?
smaug: Opera has some support for XML+V (or used to?)
... Not sure how the visual browser and the XML+V interacted.
... To me, a visual browser implementor wouldn't consider
integrating XHTML+Voice directly.
shepazu: Members appear to be neutral to the position, but don't
want to see changes to D3E to accomodate XHTML+Voice.
... Will take this feedback to them.
Travis: (Confused about terminology)
<shepazu> [13]http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml+voice/
[13] http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml+voice/
shepazu: Travis, willing to meet with these people informally at
TPAC?
Travis: Yes.
<shepazu>
[14]http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/specification/x-v11spe
c/index.html
[14]
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/specification/x-v11spec/index.html
I18n telcon
shepazu: Internationalization (I18n)
... I18n have had issues with KeyBoard events in the past.
... Pleased to report that post-summary of the current KeyboardEvent
plan was good.
... Mentioned that we return the key after all modifier processing
has happened.
... This is what they wanted.
... Concerned about encodings in supplementary planes (upper
character ranges) and how they are processed by JavaScript.
Travis: Is there a JavaScript language limitation, or is this a DOM
L3 Events issue to solve?
shepazu: Not sure. Apple asked if there were keyboard that could
produce characters in the supplementary ranges? Answer was yet.
... s/yet/yes/
... We might try normalizing the output.
... In JavaScript there are two escape sequences in a row. Alternate
forms exist.
... Again, there are a few concerns, but these aren't blocking.
... My plan is to use JavaScript escape sequences, and provide an
API to extract the Unicode code point from an escape sequence (or
something like that).
... e.g., so that someone using Java could get the the same
character, but may have to go through another step...
... I18n will review the spec in full, but they seem happy with it.
Yeah!!!
Travis: How deep to recursive event handlers go (thinking of
DOMNodeInserted handler that inserts a node).
smaug: Certain changes to the DOM within a mutation event listener
are not allowed.
... not sure what other implementations do.
<scribe> ACTION: shepazu to add section on re-entrant event handlers
(may be contingent on async/sync) [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-426 - Add section on re-entrant event
handlers (may be contingent on async/sync) [on Doug Schepers - due
2009-11-04].
Travis: This is also releated to sync/async.
-ms-styleContentLoaded
Travis: Wanting to introduce this experimental event to fill a void
for detecting when the style sheets have all loaded.
shepazu: May want to contact annavk re: CSSOM for that.
detail attributes of resize event.
shepazu: If the property is not "in use" then it has random or
default values.
... This reminds me of the "button" issue...
... PPK dislikes the W3C method (does not allow button combinations)
... What do you folks think about "buttons" with more of the IE
behavior (a bit mask)
Travis: I'm hesitant to add this-- don't want to introduce the
complexity and redundancy (and confusion?)
shepazu: I'd like to put this in the spec as a proposal--to get
community feedback.
default actions triggered by programmatic dispatch
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: e.g., programmatically create click event, dispatch
it to an <A> element, and does it navigate the page?
shepazu: This makes me really nervous.
Travis: This is allowed in most browsers (I believe)
smaug: Yes, for back compat--we broke this once and got lots of
complaints.
<smaug> ^^^^that was for keypress on input elements, IIRC
smaug: We distinguish between "trusted events" and "non-trusted",
and give trusted events the ability to cause default actions.
<smaug> isTrusted
shepazu: Should we add this concept to the spec?
... This would be a new attribute for events
("trusted"={true/false}). Programmatic dispatch of events would
always be trusted=false.
Ninja Dispatch
Travis: Create an event. Init the event. Call
stopImmediatePropagation(). Now dispatch.
<scribe> ACTION: shepazu Add clarity about dispatch under the
scenario of propagation has been stopped before dispatch. [recorded
in [16]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-427 - Add clarity about dispatch under the
scenario of propagation has been stopped before dispatch. [on Doug
Schepers - due 2009-11-04].
5.1.1: "this event must not be triggered".
Travis: This does not accomodate the Window object.
... (e.g., defaultView)
... Should all events be allowed to be captured on the defaultView?
shepazu: Yes.
<scribe> ACTION: shepazu Change text in 5.1.1 to "If an event
listener for the load event is attached to a node other than Window
(defaultView), Document or Element nodes, or if it is attached to
the bubbling phase only, this event listener must not be triggered.
[recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-428 - Change text in 5.1.1 to "If an event
listener for the load event is attached to a node other than Window
(defaultView), Document or Element nodes, or if it is attached to
the bubbling phase only, this event listener must not be triggered.
[on Doug Schepers - due 2009-11-04].
Travis: That's all I have
shepazu: Want to discuss touch/gesture events?
khiitola: Would love to get a list of people interested in
contributing to a specification on touch/gesture?
shepazu: It's in our charter to handle this.
... Call to advisory commitee has already gone out.
... Can ask for "interest" in the advisory committee (using official
channels)
... Can ask specific people as desired.
... Note: No telecon next week.
<scribe> ACTION: shepazu to the COMM teams and PLH to make a call
for participation for multitouch. [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-429 - The COMM teams and PLH to make a
call for participation for multitouch. [on Doug Schepers - due
2009-11-04].
shepazu: For multitouch, does each touchpoint have an id?
smaug: A stream id.
shepazu: What about two different people touching the device?
(Travis not participating)
shepazu: You CAN detect it!!
... Can refer to this as "alternative input events" (AIE)
khiitola: Should include the word "ninja"
<shepazu> trackbot, end telcon
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: shepazu Add clarity about dispatch under the scenario
of propagation has been stopped before dispatch. [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: shepazu Change text in 5.1.1 to "If an event listener
for the load event is attached to a node other than Window
(defaultView), Document or Element nodes, or if it is attached to
the bubbling phase only, this event listener must not be triggered.
[recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: shepazu to add section on re-entrant event handlers
(may be contingent on async/sync) [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: shepazu to the COMM teams and PLH to make a call for
participation for multitouch. [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-webapps-minutes.html#action04]
[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 29 October 2009 21:45:58 UTC