Re: Who is the Intended Audience of the Markup Spec Proposal?

Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
> 
> On Jan 27, 2009, at 10:19 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
> 
>> [moved to www-archive]
>>
>> Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
>>>> I personally would prefer the Work Group spends its time discussing 
>>>> actual tangible proposals.  And to provide everybody equal 
>>>> opportunity to produce such proposals.
>>> I think anyone is free to make a proposal, but that doesn't mean we 
>>> should publish every proposal as a Working Draft.
>>
>> This is an example of the a discussion that doesn't lead to HTML5 
>> becoming a better spec.
> 
> My goal in this particular discussion is to prevent it from becoming a 
> worse spec, as I see it. Furthermore, I believe I have done more than 
> most people to make HTML5 a better spec, and on the whole I don't think 
> discouraging me from participating in mailing list discussions will make 
> HTML5 a better spec. I know you have done much to make HTML5 a better 
> spec as well, I am not trying to compare credentials, but I do think it 
> is unfair of you to lecture me on this point.

Your credentials are unquestioned.  It is that one specific statement 
that borders on a tautology that I am questioning.

>> Nor is it particularly good argument, as it is predicated on a fallacy:
>>
>> http://www.fallacyfiles.org/eitheror.html
> 
> I do not see how my statement is an example of a false dilemma. Indeed, 
> quite the opposite. I am arguing for the middle ground of giving 
> proposals due consideration, and publishing those that have undergone 
> sufficient discussion and review, and which seem promising enough to put 
> on the standards track, as First Public Working Drafts. Is there 
> anything unreasonable about that?
> 
> Has anyone asked Mike to stop editing his document, demanded that he 
> remove it from W3C space, or refused to engage him on the technical 
> merits of his approach? To the contrary: many would love to discuss what 
> he is doing and why it may or may not be the right thing, but you would 
> like to barrel ahead without having that discussion.

Can we agree to simply capture the issues and move on?  And to block 
progress of any and all Working Drafts to the Proposed Recommendation 
status until all such issues are disposed of one way or another?

> If you think I am making weak arguments, then by all means, show me why. 
> But so far, you haven't directly engaged any of my substantive points, 
> instead diverting into this meta-meta-meta-discussion of whether I 
> should be making them.
> 
>> The current process disenfranchises many.  Perhaps not you, but many.
> 
> Have you considered whether you may be disenfranchising those who 
> disagree with you by forbidding them to even discuss the reasons for 
> their disagreement, or to propose alternate ways of proceeding and 
> giving justification for their stance?

I would like to enable more people to pursue alternate ways of proceeding.

> Regards,
> Maciej

- Sam Ruby

Received on Wednesday, 28 January 2009 13:06:32 UTC