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RE: [whatwg] Creative Commons Rights Expression Language

From: Bonner, Matt <matt.bonner@hp.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:23:36 +0000
To: Ben Adida <ben@adida.net>
CC: Kristof Zelechovski <giecrilj@stegny.2a.pl>, 'Julian Reschke' <julian.reschke@gmx.de>, 'Ian Hickson' <ian@hixie.ch>, 'Dan Brickley' <danbri@danbri.org>, 'Tab Atkins Jr.' <jackalmage@gmail.com>, 'Henri Sivonen' <hsivonen@iki.fi>, "www-archive@w3.org" <www-archive@w3.org>
Message-ID: <57221E38FB4DD54C946CE654959A554D1AAB9A10E5@GVW0436EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net>
Ben Adida wrote:
> Bonner, Matt wrote:
>>> Not at all what we're doing. A lot of the data will be in HTML to
>>> begin with.
>> Such as?
> cc:attributionName, cc:attributionURL, dc:title, dc:type, dc:date,

Aha. I thought you meant tag attributes, not their values. Thanks
for clarifying.

> Think of a paper listed at a scientific journal. All of this
> information is on the web page in HTML, we're just proposing that
> they add the metadata. 
>> Again, I'm confused. The ccREL Submission proposes XMP for PDF and
>> other media types (section 6).
> Yes, that's correct, if you can do it with XMP for media files, go for
> it, that's our recommendation. But if that data is going to be in the
> HTML anyways (e.g. an abstract page for a scientific paper), then RDFa
> also applies.

Thanks for clarifying.

Doesn't having the license info in multiple places contradict DRY?

It seems like (again, as I think Chris was saying) that each document 
should be solely responsible for its own license information. Why repeat
those data in a new page rather than simply have link to the original
page like we've all been doing in HTML since the beginning?

>>> In general, the tools for XMP are quite a bit harder to use than those
>>> for HTML.
>> Why would the average user understand better how to put ccREL data in
>> HTML pages than elsewhere?
> Because we hand them a chunk of HTML they can copy-and-paste into
> their HTML page, blog post, MySpace page, etc.. Much easier than
> anything I know of for media files.

But they need to understand IP law and the remixing rules to avoid 
"copy/paste rot", no?

For example, what if I took 3 poems w/ 3 permissive CC licenses, and
made a "new" poem that combined them by interleaving the stanzas?  I
need to understand how to put or remix correct ccREL RDFa data around
that. If another author takes that poem and interleaves a 4th, original
poem in stanza by stanza, she needs to figure out whether to include 
attribution for my interleaving, plus how to add/remix her ccREL data...
Similar problem if I create a collage of CC photos, remix of 3 CC songs,
etc. Copy/paste gets you nothing but trouble here.

Likewise, what if I mixed CC content w/ small amounts of non-CC content
in a way I considered fair use?

Rather than answer here, where it only helps me understand, I would 
propose clarification in the ccREL Submission on proper remixing of 
ccREL blocks for mixed content.

Matt Bonner
Hewlett-Packard Company

Received on Monday, 25 August 2008 22:24:57 UTC

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