[aapi] Minutes: UAI TF Meeting Tue 6 October 2015

Link: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/06-aapi-minutes.html

Plain text follows:
   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

           Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

06 Oct 2015

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2015/10/06-aapi-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger,
          Joanmarie_Diggs

   Regrets
   Chair
          Joseph_Scheuhammer

   Scribe
          joanie

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]ACTION-1717: (Joseph) Remove the MSAA plus UIA
            express column.
         2. [5]ACTION-1309: (Cynthia) UIA mappings for
            aria-colindex and aria-rowindex.
         3. [6]ACTION-1531: (Joseph, Alex, David) IA2 mapping of
            role="text".
     * [7]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 06 October 2015

   <clown> agenda: this

   <scribe> scribe: joanie

ACTION-1717: (Joseph) Remove the MSAA plus UIA express column.

   JS: My action was to remove the MSAA plus UIA express column.
   ... I removed the columns from the tables.
   ... I removed other little notes that mentioned UIA express, so
   it's now gone from the mapping spec.
   ... Cynthia was supposed to write a statement about this.
   ... Because she knows the status, I would prefer for her to
   write it rather than my doing so.
   ... I think the columns are still in the HTML-AAM. Do they need
   to be removed too?

   RS: What we're doing is for ARIA 1.1.
   ... We're in different shape.
   ... If they're going to do a mapping guide, I'm thinking it
   will be for HTML 5.1.

   <clown>
   [8]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html

      [8] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html

   RS: If there are any problems, they won't be going back to IE
   because it won't be fixed there.

   JS: I can confirm it is for HTML 5.1.

   RS: Do they have a UIA column?

   JS: Yes.

   RS: I'll ping via Skype Steve Faulkner to remove the UIA
   express column.

   JS: I noticed that in many cases, the HTML mapping spec now
   points to the core mapping spec.

   <clown> action-1717?

   <trackbot> action-1717 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Remove the MSAA
   plus UIA express column -- due 2015-09-08 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [9]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1717

      [9] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1717

   JS: And I guess you'll (Rich) need to remove this column from
   the SVG mapping guide.

   RS: Yes. I also need a UIA column.

ACTION-1309: (Cynthia) UIA mappings for aria-colindex and
aria-rowindex.

   <clown> action-1309?

   <trackbot> action-1309 -- Cynthia Shelly to Determine the best
   place to map aria-colindex and aria-rowindex for UIA. -- due
   2015-08-01 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [10]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1309

     [10] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1309

   JS: I asked Cynthia to update her action items.
   ... There are no notes for this action item.

ACTION-1531: (Joseph, Alex, David) IA2 mapping of role="text".

   <clown> action-1531

   <trackbot> action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate
   ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [11]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1531

     [11] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1531

   <clown>
   [12]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ro
   le-map-text

     [12]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-text

   JS: There was some emails back and forth last week.
   ... It looks like James Teh wants TEXT_FRAME for IA2.
   ... The mapping is at the link above.
   ... I think we're done.
   ... Can we close this action?
   ... The full mail thread occurred in wai-xtech.

   <clown>
   [13]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0014
   .html

     [13] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0014.html

   JS: The first email in the thread is at the URL above.
   ... (Reads portions of the thread)

   <clown>
   [14]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0020
   .html

     [14] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0020.html

   RS: Why would you use the role="text" on the example in that
   email?

   <clown> [15]http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#text

     [15] http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#text

   JD: Ask James Craig. I believe it's one of his examples added
   to the spec.

   JS: (Reads from the spec link above)

   RS: I know when we had the meeting, it was about putting it on
   an image.
   ... This example seems like it was something we didn't discuss
   at the meeting.
   ... What if you put an image in the middle of that example?
   ... And then there's SVG. Do you put it on the individual
   letters, or the collection of drawings?
   ... I think you'd want to put it on the individual characters.

   JD: Why?

   <clown> <svg role="text" aria-label="Hi there!">… svg element
   describing strokes … </svg>

   <clown> <svg role="text" aria-label="Hi there!">… svg elements
   describing strokes … </svg>

   (Group discusses examples)

   RS: Looking at the heart example, the heart becomes a single
   piece of text.

   JS: And the heart becomes a single piece of text.
   ... But the caret navigation would be completely bogus.

   RS: So he's saying whatever is in there has to be treated as a
   single entity.
   ... So given multiple entities, I'd treat it as a single object
   rather than individual characters.

   (Discussion on how this might or might not be searchable)

   JS: About searching CSS content, the reason you cannot search
   it in the browser is because it's not in the DOM.

   [16]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1096071

     [16] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1096071

   JS: If you have a text string, like "hello," it's made of
   strokes too. But that's not really important.
   ... That text string winds up in the accessibility APIs as
   "hello"
   ... And character navigation works.

   (More discussion of text, groups, strokes, and SVG)

   RS: The big thing we're trying to do is charts and things like
   that.
   ... Do you see why I think the text frame mapping is kind of
   confusing?
   ... You almost have to -- unless there's actual text -- treat
   it like a single image/object.
   ... Joanie, when you run across an image with alt text, what
   happens?

   JD: The alt text is displayed in braille; it's not caret
   navigable.

   <clown>
   [17]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0020
   .html

     [17] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0020.html

   JS: To go back to what James said, if there is navigable text
   then the text interface should be supported.
   ... James asked if ATs should expect accessible text or not?
   ... But he indicated NVDA should be able to handle either case.

   JD: Orca can also handle it either way.
   ... What is lacking is user agent guidance regarding when to
   implement the accessible text interface or not.

   <clown> not for <img alt>

   <clown> not for role='text' with images or image-like glyphs.

   <clown> but for role="text' when there is nothing but text.

   <clown> what about svg text defined by strokes?

   (Discussion between JD and JS regarding where in the spec(s)
   determining caret navigability belongs)

   JS: I'm convinced it needs to be in both specs.

   JD: Ok.
   ... The user agent's implementation is what determines if it's
   caret navigable or not; not the author.

   JS: But the author needs to know if it is or not.

   JD: That's fair.

   RS: And we need to be very prescriptive, or authors will be
   lost.

   JS: But how to we clarify this?

   RS: We need language in both the spec and the authoring guide.

   <clown> "I love turtles"

   <clown> "An element whose entire subtree should be exposed to
   accessibility APIs as plain text."

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]

Received on Tuesday, 6 October 2015 20:35:53 UTC