- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 16:11:19 -0400
- To: "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Link: https://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
10 Mar 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly, Joanmarie_Diggs,
Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Regrets
David_Bolter
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
joanie
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]ISSUE-693/ACTION-1563/1564: (Joseph) Mappings for
role="switch".
2. [5]ISSUE-692/ACTION-1554/1555/1556: (Joseph) Mappings
for role="searchbox".
3. [6]ACTION-1515: (Rich) Discuss issue-678 at the mon
aria teleconference (close this?).
4. [7]ACTION-980: (Rich/David/Alex) Define mappings for
managed aria related states.
* [8]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 10 March 2015
<clown> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: joanie
ISSUE-693/ACTION-1563/1564: (Joseph) Mappings for role="switch".
<clown> action-1563?
<trackbot> action-1563 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide AX API
mapping for role="switch" -- due 2015-03-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[9]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1563
[9] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1563
<clown>
[10]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ro
le-map-switch
[10]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-switch
JS: This is to put in the mappings for role="switch", which I
have done. See above link.
... I got the MSAA/IA2 mappings from Alex Surkov, the ATK from
Joanie, and also the AX API mapping from Joanie. The UIA
mappings from Cynthia.
... I had to dig into her patch to find the AX role
description.
<clown>
[11]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ro
le-map-switch
[11]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-switch
<clown> [12]http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/180600
[12] http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/180600
JD: That looks correct. But does the "AXRoleDescription" belong
in that table? I think it just happens for free and thus
implementors don't actually implement that. I think....
[13]http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/180600/trunk/LayoutTests/p
latform/mac/accessibility/roles-exposed-expected.txt
[13]
http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/180600/trunk/LayoutTests/platform/mac/accessibility/roles-exposed-expected.txt
<clown>
[14]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ro
le-map-switch
[14]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-switch
JS: Cynthia, we're looking at the mappings for switch. Could
you please double-check the mappings for UIA.
CS: Looks good.
JS: I'm going to close action-1563.
CS: The string you were just talking about is the localized
role name. James and I were talking about that a while back.
action-1564
<trackbot> action-1564 -- David Bolter to Provide IA2 mapping
for role="switch" -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[15]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1564
[15] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1564
<clown> action-1564?
<trackbot> action-1564 -- David Bolter to Provide IA2 mapping
for role="switch" -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[16]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1564
[16] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1564
JS: These are the IA2 mappings. If you look at the notes Alex
gave me, it looks to me like I've copied it pretty reasonably.
... So I'm inclined to close this action too.
(No objections)
JS: Now the associated issue has no associated actions.
issue-693
<trackbot> issue-693 -- Map role="switch" -- raised
<trackbot> [17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/693
[17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/693
<clown> issue-693?
<trackbot> issue-693 -- Map role="switch" -- raised
<trackbot> [18]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/693
[18] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/693
JS: So I'm closing issue-693.
ISSUE-692/ACTION-1554/1555/1556: (Joseph) Mappings for
role="searchbox".
<clown> action-1556?
<trackbot> action-1556 -- David Bolter to Provide IA2 mapping
for role="searchbox" -- due 2015-01-21 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[19]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1556
[19] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1556
JS: Similarly, mappings for searchbox.
<clown>
[20]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ro
le-map-searchbox
[20]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-searchbox
JS: The URL is above.
... I've got all of them except AX API.
<clown> action-1555?
<trackbot> action-1555 -- James Craig to Provide AX API mapping
for role="searchbox" -- due 2015-01-21 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[21]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1555
[21] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1555
JD: Did I give you that mapping? I did the commit.
JS: It's empty.
[22]http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/180621
[22] http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/180621
[23]http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/180621/trunk/LayoutTests/p
latform/mac/accessibility/roles-exposed-expected.txt
[23]
http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/180621/trunk/LayoutTests/platform/mac/accessibility/roles-exposed-expected.txt
JD: The above changeset and diffs should provide you the AX API
mappings.
JS: I'll add this as a comment to action-1555 and some time
this week put it in.
... Does anyone see any problems with the mappings that are
there?
<clown>
[24]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ro
le-map-searchbox
[24]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-searchbox
RS: Is ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT considered editable?
CS: It's a state.
... I think it's editable by default. And it could be readonly
(because it's a state).
RS: So it's a searchbox, wouldn't it be role of textbox?
JS: This is what Alex gave me.
CS: ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT is just plain text.
RS: textbox can be readonly at times, so we don't say it's
readonly.
<clown>
[25]https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/
AT-APIs/MSAA/Roles
[25]
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/AT-APIs/MSAA/Roles
RS: A searchbox that is readonly doesn't serve any purpose.
... So I'd ask Alex about that.
<clown>
[26]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ro
le-map-searchbox
[26]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-searchbox
<richardschwerdtfeger> IAccessible2: Expose IA2_STATE_EDITABLE
RS: I think you also need to expose (the above) as well.
<clown> "The object represents selectable text that allows
edits or is designated read-only"
JS: In the Mozilla documentation, it says ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT is
the above.
RS: So it's assumed to be editable right off the bat?
JS: Yes.
RS: Then we're good.
CS: I'm not able to verify the mapping for UIA at this time.
RS: Is this implemented in Firefox yet?
<clown> Action-1554?
<trackbot> Action-1554 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide UIA
mapping for role="searchbox" -- due 2015-02-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[27]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1554
[27] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1554
JD: I believe Marco Zehe did so.
JS: I'm reassigning action-1554 to Cynthia with a due date of
next week.
<clown> action-1556?
<trackbot> action-1556 -- David Bolter to Provide IA2 mapping
for role="searchbox" -- due 2015-01-21 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[28]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1556
[28] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1556
JS: I'm going to close action-1556 if there are no objections.
(No objections)
<clown> action-1553?
<trackbot> action-1553 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide
ATK/AT-SPI2 mapping for role="searchbox" -- due 2015-01-21 --
CLOSED
<trackbot>
[29]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1553
[29] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1553
JS: I'm going to do the AX API mappings this week.
JD: ATK's looks fine as well. Thanks!
JS: So we'll come back to this next week, and hopefully close
the remainders.
ACTION-1515: (Rich) Discuss issue-678 at the mon aria teleconference
(close this?).
<clown> action-1515?
<trackbot> action-1515 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Discuss
issue-678 at the mon aria teleconference. -- due 2015-02-24 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[30]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1515
[30] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1515
JS: I think we can close this one, but I want Rich's opinion
since it's his action.
... You have a note in there saying this was discussed, and you
created a new action.
<clown> issue-678?
<trackbot> issue-678 -- What is the ideal mapping for the aria
group role, such that it does not semantically conflict with
the generic group role on AAPIs, e.g., AXAPI and UIA. -- open
<trackbot> [31]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/678
[31] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/678
RS: We resolved this.
... We need to add a panel role.
JS: Closing action-1515 then.
ACTION-980: (Rich/David/Alex) Define mappings for managed aria
related states.
<clown> action-980
<trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Describe/define
managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset,
aria-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5
bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2015-01-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[32]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
[32] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
JS: You sent an email to Alex, Rich.
<clown>
[33]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Feb/00
54.html
[33] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Feb/0054.html
JS: I'm interested in point 2 (in your email, which is linked
above).
<clown>
[34]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Feb/00
60.html
[34] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Feb/0060.html
JS: Alex's response is at the link above.
... This is not really what I think we need.
... The problem is.... (Looks for section in the spec)
<clown>
[35]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#st
atePropertyMappingGeneralRules
[35]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#statePropertyMappingGeneralRules
JS: It's point 1 (in the above) under the general rules.
... (Reads from the text)
... It's doesn't list all the states.
... It's also using MSAA lingo there.
... We need all the states, and in language that is
Accessibility API independent.
... If you want, I will reply to Alex explaining what we need.
RS: (Reviews Alex's response)
... I think he's saying that you have to follow a certain
widget structure to know the level.
... We just say in the ARIA spec that you have to compute the
rules. The details are not provided there. I think that would
come from our (mapping) spec.
... (Continues reading)
... He didn't answer what happens with active-descendant.
... In HTML or SVG, if it's a form element or has a tab index,
then it supports focusable. That's pretty much it.
... And it's focused if it has DOM focused.
... I think that does it.
... Active descendant... I'm not sure what's exposed on the
active descendent.
<clown>
[36]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ke
yboard-focus_aria-activedescendant
[36]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#keyboard-focus_aria-activedescendant
RS: I think it's the container that has the focused state.
JS: There (above) is the link from the spec regarding active
descendant.
RS: The user agent keeps the DOM focus, but communicates
states.
... I think that needs to be clarified. The AT gets notified
that the descendant has changed.
JS: (Reads from the spec)
RS: The DOM focus doesn't change.
JS: (Reads)
... There's actually a mismatch between the DOM and the
Accessibility API.
RS: We had a discussion about this.
... The DOM focus is what the author sees.
CS: The fact that these things are different are a big source
of bugs.
... Because the author is thinking about the DOM focus, and the
platform is thinking about the Desktop focus.
... So authors need to test this.
... I'd love to find a way to make this easier for authors, but
I'm not sure how.
JS: How does this speak to the disposition of action-980?
<clown> action-980?
<trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Describe/define
managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset,
aria-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5
bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2015-01-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[37]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
[37] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
<clown>
[38]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#st
atePropertyMappingGeneralRules
[38]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#statePropertyMappingGeneralRules
JS: The above link is for bullet 1.
CS: David had a note to himself to come up with the list of
managed states.
JS: David told me he'd given many of his actions to Alex.
... But I don't see that list of states in Alex's email.
... I'll send Alex an email asking him for that list.
... What can we do with his answer though? I don't think it's a
bullet point.
CS: It could be several.
... And level is tricky.
... I wonder if we should break these up into a bunch of
actions.
JS: I agree that we need a list of states
CS: And maybe someone needs to do gap analysis of the existing
states.
JS: I'm going to create an issue.
... This new issue will serve as an umbrella for the actions
(currently two).
... Action-980 is one of them.
<clown> issue-706?
<trackbot> issue-706 -- Describe/define managed aria managed
states -- raised
<trackbot> [39]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/706
[39] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/706
JS: Cynthia, I think you know better what the second action
should be.
<clown> ACTION: Cynthia to compare implementations of aria
managed states and look for gaps. [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
[40] http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1593 - Compare implementations of
aria managed states and look for gaps. [on Cynthia Shelly - due
2015-03-17].
<clown> action-1593?
<trackbot> action-1593 -- Cynthia Shelly to Compare
implementations of aria managed states and look for gaps. --
due 2015-03-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[41]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1593
[41] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1593
trackbot, associate action-1593 with issue-706
<trackbot> action-1593 (Compare implementations of aria managed
states and look for gaps.) associated with issue-706.
CS: Please give me a month.
JS: I will respond to Alex's email and ask him to make us a
list as a first step.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Cynthia to compare implementations of aria
managed states and look for gaps. [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
[42] http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-aapi-minutes.html#action01
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 10 March 2015 20:11:55 UTC