- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:09:00 -0500
- To: "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Link: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/04-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
04 Nov 2014
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/04-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa,
Rich_Schwerdtfeger, David_Bolter
Regrets
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
joanie, clown
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Name computation
2. [5]ACTION-1492/ISSUE-671: (David) Review Joseph's
solution for widgets re: aria-invalid and its token
values.
3. [6]ACTION-1515/ISSUE-678: (Rich) Discuss issue-678 at
the Mon ARIA teleconference.
* [7]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 04 November 2014
<clown> agenda: this
<joanie> scribenick: joanie
<clown> action-1409?
<trackbot> action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress
of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position,
level, and other api be added
([8]https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due
2014-10-28 -- OPEN
[8] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453)
<trackbot>
[9]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1409
[9] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1409
JD: The plan is that I will very likely just port (more or
less) the API that is in IA2 to ATK and AT-SPI2.
... The API I'm talking about is IAccessible2::groupPosition.
JS: There is a note in the action where we said we'd move the
due date out a month.
... You (Joanie) also said that you'd do an initial
implementation.
... So let's move it to the 25 November.
JD: Perfect.
Name computation
<clown>
[10]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.h
tml
[10] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html
JS: The above is the latest document which I have more or less
got done the Friday before TPAC.
... I sent out an email about it.
<clown> action-1474?
<trackbot> action-1474 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Work with
joseph s. and david b. to rewrite text alternative computation
for both the aria spec. and the core accessibility api mappings
specification. -- due 2014-10-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[11]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1474
[11] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1474
action-1474
<trackbot> action-1474 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Work with
joseph s. and david b. to rewrite text alternative computation
for both the aria spec. and the core accessibility api mappings
specification. -- due 2014-10-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[12]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1474
[12] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1474
JS: I sent that email on the 31st.
... Steve noticed and started tweeting about it.
... I wasn't able to reach too many people, but I was able to
reach Rich.
... Did you all talk about it?
BG: I don't recall doing so.
JS: I didn't see it in the minutes.
<clown>
[13]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.h
tml#mapping_additional_nd_te
[13]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_te
JS: Most important changes are in the above section.
<clown>
[14]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.h
tml
[14] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html
RS: I need to integrate that in the SVG spec.
<clown>
[15]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.h
tml#mapping_additional_nd_te
[15]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_te
RS: Is there a way to reference a given area in ReSpec?
JS: All I do is ../ -- it's just a relative URL.
<clown> ../accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_addtional_nd-te
JS: Like that (the above)
<clown> the above assumes you are in the svg-aam directory.
JS: I know there's automatic linking for the glossary.
RS: We used to have a class to reference things like the name
computation spec.
JS: The role references, state, etc. is something I wrote. I
didn't write anything for the accessible name computation.
RS: There are places where we are supposed to tie to each of
these particular things.
... Where do we go to reference the host language semantics?
... Like the title attribute.
JS: It's step 2D.
<clown>
[16]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.h
tml#mapping_additional_nd_te
[16]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_te
JS: Go the above and then scroll to 2D.
RS and JS: (Each reading from documents in front of them)
<richardschwerdtfeger> Otherwise, if the current node's native
markup provides an attribute or element that defines a text
alternative, return that alternative as a flat string, unless
the element is marked as presentational (role="presentation" or
role="none").
<richardschwerdtfeger> Above wording taken from second note in
ISSUE-522.
JS: So what you want is a way to refer to step 2D.
RS: Yes.
<richardschwerdtfeger> <a class="core-mapping"
href="#role-map-none">
RS: So we have (the above). And we should have one for
name-mapping and then take the ID.
... So it expands to your (Joseph's) document.
JS: OK. Send me an email that outlines that.
ACTION-1492/ISSUE-671: (David) Review Joseph's solution for widgets
re: aria-invalid and its token values.
<clown> action-1492?
<trackbot> action-1492 -- David Bolter to Investigate issue 671
and propose a solution that is clear for widgets -- due
2014-09-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1492
[17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1492
<clown>
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/008
1.html
[18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0081.html
JS: This is the crucial email in which I outlined the solution.
... James Craig said fine for Apple.
... Marco replied saying that is what Firefox does now.
... I want confirmation from you (David).
... You expose invalid:true as a text attribute.
<clown> aria-level="it's matt fault"
<clown> aria-invalid="it's matt's fault".
JS: If aria-invalid is set to "it's matt's fault" it gets
mapped in IA2 as state-invalid is set
<clown> Expose "invalid:true" as a text attribute.
JS: You lose "it's matt's fault" completely.
DB: I can confirm that's what we do. And that doesn't seem
especially bad.
JS: Same thing happens on ATK/AT-SPI2.
... I still need Cynthia's input.
DB: That seems fine for me.
<clown>
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/008
1.html
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0081.html
JS: Stefan wants more invalid types, but that seems like
something which belongs in the ARIA spec.
... I don't take his comment to mean what we're proposing here
is incorrect.
... I just need Cynthia's input for the UIA mapping.
<clown> The mapping of aria-invalid="unknown value" for IA2 ...
RESOLUTION: The mapping of aria-invalid="unknown value" for
IA2, ATK/AT-SPI2, and AX API are as stated in
[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/008
1.html.
[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0081.html.
DB: I need to leave.
ACTION-1515/ISSUE-678: (Rich) Discuss issue-678 at the Mon ARIA
teleconference.
<clown> action-1515?
<trackbot> action-1515 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Discuss
issue-678 at the mon aria teleconference. -- due 2014-10-07 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[21]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1515
[21] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1515
JS: This action of yours is due.
<clown> issue-678?
<trackbot> issue-678 -- What is the ideal mapping for the aria
group role, such that it does not semantically conflict with
the generic group role on AAPIs, e.g., AXAPI and UIA. -- open
<trackbot> [22]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/678
[22] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/678
JS: It's kind of a strange action since you wanted to take it
up at the Monday call.
RS: The problem is that -- I would put it on Monday's agenda.
... But we have actions from Cynthia.
... Currently in IE they make this (div) to a group role.
... We don't want to have groups all over the place.
<clown> current mapping:
[23]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ro
le-map-group
[23]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-group
RS: The other problem we have is that we have a similar issue
in SVG. If you put alt text on a circle without any role, it
defaults to a group role.
... I think we need to figure out what we want to call this
thing.
... I think div defaults to section in Gecko.
JS: Yes.
RS: Let's push this issue out a bit.
JS and RS: (Discuss date and agree upon 9 December)
<clown>
[24]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ro
le-map-group
[24]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-group
JS: I noticed that the ATK/AT-SPI2 is role panel
<clown>
[25]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#group
[25] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#group
<clown> scribenick: clown
JD: A div is not a group.
... We are going to have a problem with AAPI role section,
since there is a section role.
... A group is a container of widgets, so that maps to PANEL.
... So, what FF is doing now is fine.
... It's all good right now.
... I heard doubts and questions in Rich's voice, and I wanted
to understand that.
RS: I want everyone to agree and have interoperabiliity.
... Panel makes more sense, if it's a group of widgets.
... What doesn't make sense to have a div as a group (role
panel).
... I'm not sure what we did use for html5 <section>.
JD: Everywhere that is not ATK, a div is a group, and a group
is a group, and you can't distinguish them.
RS: right.
... Also, <section> is mapped to region.
... But, a div is just a generic container.
... We need an agreement across all the browsers.
<joanie>
[26]https://developer.gnome.org/atk/unstable/AtkObject.html#Atk
Role
[26] https://developer.gnome.org/atk/unstable/AtkObject.html#AtkRole
JD: ATK doesn't have a role region.
RS: Yes, you do in object properties.
<laughter>
RS: Take a table for example. If you have a grid, it's mapped
to table, but also as xml-roles:grid.
... That allows ATs to not steal keystrokes in the case of a
grid.
[27]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ma
pping_role
[27]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_role
<joanie> scribenick: joanie
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
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Received on Tuesday, 4 November 2014 21:09:38 UTC