Re: Summarizing the contentious history of re-opened PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in ARIA 1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion

What about role=""? An explicitly empty string for the role value could be a synonym for role="presentation"

On Jan 28, 2014, at 4:54 PM, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Some of other ideas...
> 
> Role=text

FWIW, text is already on the table as a 1.1 role. 

ISSUE-435: Consider role="text" to expose elements (and contents) as static text node
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/435

> Role=plaintext
> Role=notag
> Role=layout (nice for tables, less sure about other tags)
> Role=span 
> 
> I kind of like role=span.  I think it will be really obvious to html devs what this does.  It will be a little goofy to devs moving from Windows and other native platform APIs to web, but I think the parallel to HTML will be fairly easy to explain to them.  
> 
> I'd use something else for decorative images.  
> Maybe 
> Role=decoration
> Role=deco
> Or keep presentation for this use, as it's pretty similar and widely deployed.
> 
> That could be combined with alt/longdesc/aria-describedby etc. to be read on user request, or with aria-hidden to make it silent.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 1:22 PM
> To: T.V Raman; jongund@illinois.edu
> Cc: jason@jasonjgw.net; wai-xtech@w3.org; w3c-wai-pf@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Summarizing the contentious history of re-opened PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in ARIA 1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion
> 
> I'm having trouble understanding how role="inline" would convey to a developer that the role would remove the tag from the accessibility tree without hiding or removing any child content. Especially since the role would be applicable to all elements.
> 
> The word 'inline' to me, or 'block', seems to imply that it turns block level elements into inline elements or the reverse, which would be an incorrect assumption for developers.
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com>
> To: <jongund@illinois.edu>
> Cc: <jason@jasonjgw.net>; <wai-xtech@w3.org>; <w3c-wai-pf@w3.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 8:54 AM
> Subject: RE: Summarizing the contentious history of re-opened
> PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in ARIA 1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion
> 
> 
> Jon,
> Borrowing block/inline from CSS  as role values is a good idea; an even better idea is to just mirror over CSS state into the accessibility side, i.e. make display:inline  create an implicit role="inline"  on the ARIA  side, rather than asking  authors to write both.
> 
> Gunderson, Jon R writes:
>> Another idea is to borrow from the CSS concepts of "block" and "inline".
>> 
>> Role="block" and role="inline"
>> 
>> This would provide some semantics as to where the "text" content is part of something that stands on its own (e.g. block), versus part of something more (e.g. inline).
>> 
>> I know Cynthia Shelley and Rich have talked about concatenating text runs, and this would provide some way to give ATs a hint on how to do that and developers already have some idea what block and inline mean from CSS. 
> I am not sure how they would interpret "none", just like the confusion over "presentation".
>> 
>> Jon
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jason White [mailto:jason@jasonjgw.net]  > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 6:12 PM  > To: wai-xtech@w3.org; w3c-wai-pf@w3.org WAI-PFWG  > Subject: Re: Summarizing the contentious history of re-opened
> PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in ARIA 1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion  >  > James Craig <jcraig@apple.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks for the feedback Suzanne. Whether or not “none” is the best  > > replacement is irrelevant. The confusion is not around images. It it  > > around the use of role="presentation" on other elements. For example:
>>> 
>>> The following marking: <h4 role="presentation">Foo</h4>  > >  > > is effectively the same as: <div>Foo</div>  > >  >  > Perhaps role="generic" would be more descriptive for the uninitiated.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
>

Received on Wednesday, 29 January 2014 01:26:39 UTC