- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 16:26:09 -0500
- To: wai-xtech@w3.org
Link: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
11 Feb 2014
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
joanie, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Cynthia_Shelly, David_Bolter
Regrets
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
joanie
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]ISSUE-618/ACTION-1371: (Cynthia) Investigate how IE
implements item de-selection in single selection
container.
2. [5]Finalize discussion of meeting time.
3. [6]ACTION-1383: (All) Add role none to ARIA spec.
4. [7]Finalize discussion of meeting time.
5. [8]ISSUE-441/ACTION-1372: (Cynthia) Test case for
incomplete use of aria-posinset/aria-setsize.
6. [9]ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368/ACTION-1369: (David, Cynthia)
aria-live removal events should/must happen before
object removal.
7. [10]ISSUE-612/ACTION-1370: (Joseph) Add text back for
implicit aria-level computation via aria-owns
hierarchy.
8. [11]ISSUE-618/ACTION-1371: (Cynthia) Investigate how
IE implements item de-selection in single selection
container.
9. [12]ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368/ACTION-1369: (David,
Cynthia) aria-live removal events should/must happen
before object removal.
10. [13]ISSUE-612/ACTION-1370: (Joseph) Add text back for
implicit aria-level computation via aria-owns
hierarchy.
* [14]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 11 February 2014
<clown> agenda: this
<clown> scribenick: joanie
ISSUE-618/ACTION-1371: (Cynthia) Investigate how IE implements item
de-selection in single selection container.
<clown> issue-618?
<trackbot> issue-618 -- MSAA selection event mapping for single
selection case when item becomes unselected -- open
<trackbot> [15]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/618
[15] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/618
CS: Is halfway through the test case and hopes to have it done
today.
... All of her action items are to make a test case and see
what IE does.
Finalize discussion of meeting time.
JS: Nothing is likely to change w.r.t. the meeting time
... Either continue meeting at 3:00-4:00 or 3:15-4:15 PM
Eastern Time
CS: Thinks she can do 3:15.
JS: Let's make it at 3:15-4:15, but we'll check with David when
he arrives.
CS: Won't be here next week.
JS: Will be here.
ACTION-1383: (All) Add role none to ARIA spec.
<clown> action-1383?
<trackbot> action-1383 -- James Craig to Add role none to spec
-- due 2014-02-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[16]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1383
[16] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1383
JS: Just a heads up for those who were not at Monday's meeting.
... Create discussion.
... James Craig has an action to add it to the spec.
... My understanding is it will duplicate what is in
role=presentation
<clown> <img alt="" ...>
<clown> <img role="presentation" ...>
<clown> <img role="presentation" alt="some text here" …>
<clown> the last one is an author error.
JS: Explains the above examples
... Explained that the first two examples are equivalent. This
is in ARIA 1.0
<clown> <img role="none" aria-label="some text here">
JS: Heard at monday's meeting that they are considering doing
the above.
<cyns> that seems wrong...
JD: Recalled from Monday that there may be the possibility of
<img role="text" alt="foo">
JS: conclusion is role="none" is going forward.
Finalize discussion of meeting time.
ISSUE-441/ACTION-1372: (Cynthia) Test case for incomplete use of
aria-posinset/aria-setsize.
<clown> issue-441?
<trackbot> issue-441 -- Normative UAIG requirements for what
UAs do when aria-posinset or aria-setsize is provided
explicitly on some, but not all, elements within a set. -- open
<trackbot> [17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/441
[17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/441
JS + CS: Cynthia is working on it
JS: Are you doing a list box?
CS: Yes.
... is modifying test case 672.
<clown>
[18]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsu
ite_id=1&testcase_id=672
[18]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=672
JS: This is for selection; not setsize
ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368/ACTION-1369: (David, Cynthia) aria-live removal
events should/must happen before object removal.
JS: Cynthia has this in progress.
ISSUE-612/ACTION-1370: (Joseph) Add text back for implicit aria-level
computation via aria-owns hierarchy.
<clown> issue-612?
<trackbot> issue-612 -- Review ia2/atk rule in group position.
should this really determine level based on aria-owns chain.
see uaig:
[19]http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#mapping_addit
ional_position and test case 69:
[20]https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/testharness/testresults?tes --
open
[19]
http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_position
[20] https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/testharness/testresults?tes
<trackbot> [21]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/612
[21] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/612
JS: That one is his.
<clown>
[22]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/test?testsuite_id=2&t
estcase_id=69&platform_id=4
[22]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/test?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=69&platform_id=4
JS: Explains what they did was a bunch of sibling div elements
<clown>
[23]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite
_id=2&testcase_id=69
[23]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=69
<clown> test report ^
JS: But they used aria-owns to create a tree
... There is a mozilla bug on it.
<clown> [24]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499917
[24] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499917
JS: Rewinds for David
... Meeting will be from 3:15-4:15
DB: Agrees this is fine, but he may need to leave early
JS: The meeting time will be from 3:00 - 4:15
... Hopefully David will be able to arrive at 3:00
... Cynthia hopefully will be able to arrive at 3:15
... Mozilla stuff first then together stuff then IE stuff
... Reviews the role="presentation" discussion.
... If Mozilla has objections....
DB: He doesn't. He's going to file the bug and find out.
JS: Stefan wanted to use role="layout" for layout tables
... ... but for images that are decorative
... ... something like role="decorative"
... Feel was we don't want a bunch of roles that do the same
thing
... For the record, he wanted it to be role="contents"
<clown> <table role="contents" …>
DB: I don't think Web Devs would assume that is what it means
JS: I wanted to focus on 'expose the contents'
DB: I saw enough of the dialog and thinks we can go with
role="none"
JS: Already seen a tweet that means it will remove everything
DB: There will be confusion
JS: Then we aren't solving the problem
DB: Is this something that is consensus from the Monday
meeting?
JS: Basically it's a let's write it up and see what it looks
like
s/DS/DB/g
<davidb> I just filed
[25]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=971212 for
role=none Moz debate.
[25] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=971212
ISSUE-618/ACTION-1371: (Cynthia) Investigate how IE implements item
de-selection in single selection container.
ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368/ACTION-1369: (David, Cynthia) aria-live removal
events should/must happen before object removal.
<clown> issue-481?
<trackbot> issue-481 -- aria-live removal events should or must
happen before object removal -- open
<trackbot> [26]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/481
[26] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/481
JS: David you weren't here last week
<clown> action-1369?
<trackbot> action-1369 -- David Bolter to Investigate
implementation of aria-live region events in FF -- due
2014-02-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[27]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1369
[27] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1369
JS: Cynthia and I gave you an action
DB: I acknowledge the issue
JS: quoting from issue-481
... He wants that 'should' changed to a 'must'
... That's what I take it to mean
... I leave it to you guys
DB: Cynthia do you have an opinion on 1369 about the order of
removal eventes
CS: I understand why he thinks this. I don't know how hard it
will be to do it.
JS: That's why you two have issues
CS: Is there anyone from Google?
DB: Dominic Mazzoni
... Going to stay one the phone, but everything is bogging down
here
ISSUE-612/ACTION-1370: (Joseph) Add text back for implicit aria-level
computation via aria-owns hierarchy.
<clown> issue-612?
<trackbot> issue-612 -- Review ia2/atk rule in group position.
should this really determine level based on aria-owns chain.
see uaig:
[28]http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#mapping_addit
ional_position and test case 69:
[29]https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/testharness/testresults?tes --
open
[28]
http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_position
[29] https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/testharness/testresults?tes
<trackbot> [30]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/612
[30] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/612
JS: There's a mozilla bug on it too
<clown> [31]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499917
[31] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499917
JS: Looks like Alex wants to keep it
... Our issue in the test case is that there are div element
siblings
... but there is a hierarchy do to aria-owns
... and the test case fails
<clown>
[32]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite
_id=2&testcase_id=69
[32]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=69
JS: Who raised the issue?
... It doesn't say who.
... I think Rich and James together suggested getting rid of
this
... quoting text
<clown> "If aria-level is not provided or inherited for an
element of role treeitem, user agents implementing IAccessible2
or ATK/AT-SPI MUST compute it by following the explicit or
computed RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF relations"
JS: end of quote
... And we discussed this last october?
... And Alex asked why to remove this requirement
DB: Did we?
JS: It should be up in today's w3c notes
... Reading discussion
DB: I don't recall
<clown> alex first said: "Can you outline why they decided to
remove the requirement?"
<davidb_> back!
<clown> and later asked: "so no strong reasons to drop it?"
JS: I get the impression that Alex sees no reason to get rid of
this.
... I think what I want you to do is restart the discussion
with him
DB: OK
JS: Because it's both IA2 and ATK
<clown>
[33]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA-UAIG/1.0/
tests/test-files/test69.html
[33]
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA-UAIG/1.0/tests/test-files/test69.html
JS: Michael Cooper acknowledged it's a kinda odd way to do a
tree
... ... but there's nothing in the spec that says it's illegal
... David, can you see the markup?
DB: They're all sibling divs
JS: Goes on to explain the tree structure that results
... And the test case....
... ... says "The level of the last tree item is 2"
... ... When you run the test the level is not 2
... IE wasn't tested
... Only Safari
... James Craig wasn't certain what the result is
... Rich tested it on windows firefox
... ... and set it failed, but didn't say how it failed
... Cynthia, can you run a test case?
<clown>
[34]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsu
ite_id=1&testcase_id=69
[34]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=69
JS: Here's the full test case (above)?
... Questions if that is the right test case.
<clown>
[35]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsu
ite_id=2&testcase_id=69
[35]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=69
CS: also questions it
JS: quotes the test expected results
CS: I'll find out
JS: I don't know how you represent level in IE
... I can't recall how it is in Firefox ATK
JD: It's an object attribute
(more discussion on the test case)
CS: In IE I'm not seeing an explicit API property of level
... But I am seeing it in the tree
... It's doing what I expect (it == IE)
JS: Adds a note to the issue
CS: Is there a way to attach a screenshot to the issue
JS: I think you have to send an email to the issue
CS: I'm wrong, the tree does not own it.
JS and CS: So it fails on IE.
CS: It's challenging to look at some of these test cases in API
tools.
JS: David you have enough to go forward?
DB: I do.
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [36]scribe.perl version
1.138 ([37]CVS log)
$Date: 2014-02-11 21:15:39 $
__________________________________________________________
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Found ScribeNick: joanie
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Present: joanie Joseph_Scheuhammer Cynthia_Shelly David_Bolter
Found Date: 11 Feb 2014
Guessing minutes URL: [39]http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-aapi-minutes.html
People with action items:
[39] http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-aapi-minutes.html
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Received on Tuesday, 11 February 2014 21:26:44 UTC