Re: Effect of role=presentation on img elements with svg

While I understand what Apple has implemented (defaults to a group role) we
have not decided on a normative mapping for SVG across browsers.  We will
be creating an implementation guide for SVG. Here are the current outline
drafts:
www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Outline_Core_User_Agent_Implementation_Guide

At the last WAI-PF face to face in Toronto we agreed to develop these 3
specs. I have to do to get with Joseph Scheuhammer to do some further
planning for this. We will be developing a core implementation guide for
1.1 to which the HTML5 and SVG specs. will refer to. Both SVG and HTML5
will have different name computation mechanisms that we need to agree on.
Each host platform has different features that will contribute to the name
computation.

Both HTML5 and SVG will require different name computation algorithms.

Also, I would encourage us to post comments to the new public-pfwg@w3.org.
We no longer need xtexh and wai-pf (which is private) .

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger



From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>, Joanmarie Diggs
            <jdiggs@igalia.com>, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, Bryan
            Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>, "T.V Raman"
            <raman@google.com>, "jongund@illinois.edu"
            <jongund@illinois.edu>, "jason@jasonjgw.net"
            <jason@jasonjgw.net>, "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>,
            "w3c-wai-pf@w3.org WAI-PFWG" <w3c-wai-pf@w3.org>
Date: 02/02/2014 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Effect of role=presentation on img elements with svg



Steve Faulkner, Sun, 2 Feb 2014 15:09:44 +0000:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/377471/SVG/index.html


Based on Safari 6 and VoiceOver for OSX 10.7, the conclusions for the
SVG-via-img-element test are incorrect w.r.t. Safari+VoiceOver. See the
test:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/377471/SVG/adobesvgtest4.html


The claim, at that page, is that the <img> defaults to img role.
However, it actually is given group role.  Of course, for OSX 10.8 and
10.9, the Accesibility Inspector might show another result. It is a
quite serious deviation from HTML5 to let <img> default to group role
rather than img role … So may be it is fixed ...

Note as well that the SVG image contains script, but that HTML5 says
about <img>: ”However, these definitions preclude SVG files with
script”.

Anyway: The most interesting thing, here, is what, if anything - in
ARIA - permits AT to look into the document referenced at @src for
deciding the alternative text. And why is <svg> unique? After all, it
is possible to embed meta data in other images as well.

No doubt, this matter will confuse authors even more w.r.t. to the
effect of role="presentation". But that said, is not more complicated
than this: We need to decided if/how/where the document in src="svg"
fits into the accessible name calculation. I would say, though, it
would be a fundamental break with today’s ARIA.

It is a little annoying that we are invited to a debate about the name
of the presentation role. And then it ends up as debate about meaning
of the presentation role/pushing its limits ...

Leif Halvard Silli

> has a range of tests, also see
>
http://blog.paciellogroup.com/2013/12/using-aria-enhance-svg-accessibility/

>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
>
> On 2 February 2014 13:26, Leif Halvard Silli <
> xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> wrote:
>
>> Steve Faulkner, Sun, 2 Feb 2014 08:23:20 +0000:
>>>>
>>>> Effectively, what you are saying above, is that this:
>>>>    <img role="presentation" src="svg">
>>>
>>>  the subdom of an <svg> img is available:
>>>
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/377471/SVG/adobesimplesvgtest1.htmlfor

>>> an example,
>>>
>>> the subdom of <img src=svg> does not appear to be available:
>>>
>>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/377471/SVG/adobesvgtest4.html

>>
>> I am preparing some test page.
>>
>> Tou are perhaps more after deeper things rather than VoiceOver
>> behavior.  But an interesting expansion of your own tests could be to
>> set the role of the directly emebedded <svg> element to "img" and see
>> if that changes anything in VoiceOver.
>>
>> Leif Halvard Silli
>>