Re: The 9 Citations Buttressing HTML's Issue-204

Thanks, Leif, for providing this annotation of my list of URIs. It's
very helpful.


Regretably, today's ARIA telecon was unable to get to this agendum, but
it will be taken up at the next meeting next Monday, I expect.

Janina

Leif Halvard Silli writes:
> Janina Sajka, Thu, 16 Feb 2012 23:07:42 -0500:
> 
> > and reached such a markedly different conclusion from that
> > of the ARIA Task Force itself,
> 
> Conclusion about what? 
> And where is the ARIA Task Force' conclusion w.r.t. ISSUE-204? In the 
> ARIA specs, you mean?
> 
> I offer comments to the urls you pointed. See below.
> 
> > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#include_elements
> 
> This confirms that elements with @hidden must not be included in the 
> a11y three. The HTMLwg is in violent *agreement* with ARIA on this, as 
> much as I can see.
> 
> > 
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_relations_reverse_relations
> > 
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_relations_reverse_relations
> 
> This seems quite important - so I quote: 
> 
> "Note that aria-describedby may reference structured or interactive 
> information where users would want to be able to navigate to different 
> sections of content. User agents MAY provide a way for the user to 
> navigate to structured information referenced by aria-describedby and 
> assistive technology SHOULD provide such a method."
> 
> This quote *does* say that AT/UA should make available to the user the 
> interactive and structured semantics of an section that 
> aria-describedby points to.
>   
> > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_role_table
> 
> No comment.
> 
> > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#Descriptions_external
> 
> Quote: "if you wish to reference an external resource with 
> aria-describedby, you can reference a link that in turn references the 
> external resource"
> 
> And then it offers this this example, which I simplify for brevity:
> 
>    <img src=histogram
>        alt="Histogram of Blackberry tree heights"
>        aria-describedby=longdesc >
>    <a id=longdesc href=link target=_description>Histogram data</a>
> 
> 
> Comment: I have earlier proposed to change this text - even to remove 
> it - because it did not speak to the facts. But now, I have heard from 
> Jonas, that this technique already works, for visible elements. [Though 
> when I asked, he did not point me to a particular build of Firefox for 
> testing.] What ISSUE-204 promises is that what the ARIA Practises 
> document here describe for a link without HTML5's @hidden attribute, 
> would also be possible for a link with HTML5's @hidden attribute.
> 
> BUT NOTE: The link inside this example could very well be hidden, 
> despite the fact that does not have aria-hidden=true. For instance: It 
> might have been placed off-screen via CSS. The example does not say 
> anything about this. [But note that ARIA 1.0 says that when an element 
> is hidden, then it should have aria-hidden=true. So it is quite 
> possible that this element should have had that. Because, as long as it 
> is not hidden, it would be read read twice by the AT: Once when 
> presenting the aria-describedby relationship and once when the 
> rendering proceeds to the next element,after the <img>.]
>  
> > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#Descriptions_tooltip
> 
> Hm. I guess a role=tooltip element could contain a link to a long 
> description ...
> 
> > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#kbd_layout_remaining_description
> > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#kbd_layout_remaining_description
> 
> Quote: "This is unlike longdesc which typically requires the author to 
> create a separate file to describe a picture." 
> 
> Comment: Longdesc does not 'typically require this' - it is just that 
> longdesc typically is *used* that way.
> 
> Quote: "It is preferable to have the descriptive text in prose as well 
> so that it is readily available to all users"
> 
> Comment: Question: Why is it preferable, when this could lead to 
> repetition? At any rate: That it is preferable, means that the text 
> take account for the fact that some will hide the description.
> 
> Quote: "This is the preferred vehicle for providing long descriptions 
> for elements in your document. … snip … aria-describedby can also be 
> used to point to a link to another page"
> 
> Comment: The sections discusses @longdesc many times. But says that 
> @aria-describedby is the preferred method for long descriptions inside 
> the document. And, despite that it claims that @longdesc's primary role 
> is to point to other documents, it does demonstrate how to do the same 
> with @aria-describedby. 
> 
> This document several times demonstrates how to use the alt attribute 
> correctly. BUT NOT A SINGLE TIME DOES IT DEMONSTRATE HOW TO USE 
> @longdesc - not even when it speaks about pointing to external 
> documents.
> 
> The elephant in the room .... No! The elephants - in plural. If the 
> ARIA Task Force has reached a 'different conclusion' about - hm - 
> @longdesc, then it has done its best to hide it.
> 
> > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/states_and_properties#aria-describedby
> 
> No comment. But I would like to also point to ARIA 1.0's section on 
> Text Alternative Computation:
> 
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#textalternativecomputation
> 
> quote: "Skip hidden elements unless the author specifies to use them 
> via an aria-labelledby or aria-describedby being used in the current 
> computation."
> -- 
> Leif Halvard Silli

-- 

Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
  sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net

Chair, Open Accessibility janina@a11y.org 
Linux Foundation  http://a11y.org

Chair, Protocols & Formats
Web Accessibility Initiative http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)

Received on Monday, 20 February 2012 17:29:52 UTC