Re: Tree sample code

Jon,

Take a look at the one I sent out that suggests to implement arrow keys 
only in ARIA-enabled browsers.
For other browsers it has the fallback of looking like nested lists of 
links that can be tabbed-through.

- Aaron



From:
Jon Gunderson <jongund@illinois.edu>
To:
James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
Cc:
Aaron M Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM@IBMUS, Cynthia Shelly 
<cyns@exchange.microsoft.com>, George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com>, W3C 
WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Date:
09/08/2008 06:54 PM
Subject:
Re: Tree sample code



This is not really a tree widget in the sense of ARIA since it does not 
control keyboard focus actively.  You essentially tab through all the 
"links" that are leaves and it does not support use the ARROW keys to 
navigate the tree structure.

Jon



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 17:14:08 -0700
>From: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com> 
>Subject: Re: Tree sample code 
>To: Jon Gunderson <jongund@illinois.edu>
>Cc: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com>, Cynthia Shelly 
<cyns@exchange.microsoft.com>, George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com>, W3C 
WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>
>
>
>I think George and Cynthia originally sent it out as an attachment, so 
>I've uploaded their example here.
>
>http://cookiecrook.com/test/aria/tree/microsoft_original/ariatree.htm

>
>
>On Sep 7, 2008, at 6:58 AM, Jon Gunderson wrote:
>
>> Is there a link to the Microsoft implementation of tree?
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 12:42:26 +0200
>>> From: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com>
>>> Subject: RE: Tree sample code
>>> To: Cynthia Shelly <cyns@exchange.microsoft.com>
>>> Cc: George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com>, "wai-xtech@w3.org" 
<wai-xtech@w3.org 
>>> >, wai-xtech-request@w3.org
>>>
>>>  The graceful degredation might work if you put
>>>  role="presentation" in the right places. Let's work
>>>  together on that.
>>>
>>>  In general need to "circle the wagons" on ARIA
>>>  implementations so that the same things work in both
>>>  IE and Firefox.
>>>  Can we all agree to try out our ideas in each
>>>  other's implementations or at least make sure the
>>>  ARIA user agent implementor's guide reflects the
>>>  algorithm you will use when exposing the positional
>>>  info to the AT.
>>>
>>>  If you can read between the lines, I'm honestly just
>>>  worried that we're all doing different things
>>>  without checking with each other and trying it out
>>>  with the currently shipping implementations that
>>>  already work, or even checking it against the ARIA
>>>  spec or implementors guide. If everyone structures
>>>  their test widgets slightly differently, any 2
>>>  implementations will work differently. Authors will
>>>  end up with a mess. IOW please just take this as me
>>>  hoping we can go back and forth until we agree to do
>>>  trees the same way, not to mention menubars, combo
>>>  boxes and other complex composite widgets with
>>>  potential structural choices.
>>>
>>>  - Aaron
>>>
>>>  From:    Cynthia Shelly
>>>           <cyns@exchange.microsoft.com>
>>>  To:      Aaron M Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM@IBMUS
>>>  Cc:      George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com>,
>>>           "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
>>>  Date:    09/06/2008 12:52 AM
>>>  Subject: RE: Tree sample code
>>>
>>>    ------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>  #1 is probably just do to our inexperience.  If
>>>  it’s not needed, that’s great.
>>>
>>>  So, #2 is the point of this code sample.  Use the
>>>  native semantics as far as they go, and then
>>>  progressively enhance with ARIA.  I feel pretty
>>>  strongly that this type of graceful degradation
>>>  pattern should be supported if we want accessibility
>>>  in the broadest range of user agents.
>>>
>>>  As a side note, I am getting position and nesting
>>>  info with IE 8 Beta 2 and JAWS 9.0.2169 with the
>>>  virtual cursor turned off, and I’m also seeing it
>>>  in MSAA description field in Inspect32.  The child
>>>  count is incorrect, and I haven’t yet figured out
>>>  why.
>>>
>>>
>>>  From: Aaron M Leventhal [mailto:aleventh@us.ibm.com]
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:56 AM
>>>  To: Cynthia Shelly
>>>  Cc: George Young; wai-xtech@w3.org
>>>  Subject: Re: Tree sample code
>>>
>>>  Here are my comments on Microsoft's tree sample:
>>>  1. It uses aria-level, aria-setsize and
>>>  aria-posinset when it doesn't need to.
>>>  The idea is that authors only need to do that if the
>>>  tree is not DOM complete -- iow it's loaded
>>>  dynamically. When the entire tree structure is there
>>>  the user agent is supposed to calculate that info
>>>  from the structure.
>>>  2. It uses <li><a/></li> constructs.
>>>  This seems to be to allow for graceful degredation
>>>  for non-ARIA clients. However, it means that the
>>>  tree has list, list item and tree item objects mixed
>>>  together, and no longer looks like a tree widget to
>>>  current generation ATs. Neither current ATs nor
>>>  Firefox 3 will process the structure and
>>>  automatically provide info like the level, posinset
>>>  and setsize.
>>>  In general, the current implementors guide algorithm
>>>  will not work with this tree. So either the tree
>>>  needs to change, or the impl guide algorithm or
>>>  both.
>>>  What do you suggest?
>>>  - Aaron
>>>
>>>  From:    Cynthia Shelly
>>>           <cyns@exchange.microsoft.com>
>>>  To:      "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
>>>  Cc:      George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com>
>>>  Date:    07/07/2008 11:21 PM
>>>  Subject: Tree sample code
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    ------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>  As promised, here is a zip of the tree sample I
>>>  demo’d at the face to face.
>>>
>>>  Tree.htm uses only nested unordered lists of links
>>>  (with onclick handlers) to achieve tree behavior.
>>>   JAWS in virtual cursor mode with medium verbosity
>>>  does a good job of reading the list levels.
>>>   Tab+enter opens and closes the tree levels.
>>>
>>>  Ariatree.htm is the same tree, with aria markup
>>>  added to the links.  With virtual cursor turned off,
>>>  list level information is exposed to MSAA.  This was
>>>  tested with IE8 beta 1 and JAWS 9.  There are a few
>>>  bugs in what is exposed to MSAA by IE in this early
>>>  build, which will be fixed.
>>>
>>>  I’ve copied George Young, who wrote the original
>>>  tree, to which I added ARIA for the CSUN demo.
>>>   George is the best person to work with on combining
>>>  this tree with any other samples that have more
>>>  extensive keyboard handling features.[attachment
>>>  "trees.zip" deleted by Aaron M
>>>  Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM]
>
>
Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.
Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility
Disability Resources and Educational Services

Rehabilitation Education Center
Room 86
1207 S. Oak Street
Champaign, Illinois 61821

Voice: (217) 244-5870

WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/

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