- From: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:13:41 +0200
- To: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
- Cc: Alfred.S.Gilman@ieee.org, alice.liu@apple.com, annevk@opera.com, Beth Dakin <bdakin@apple.com>, Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>, hsivonen@iki.fi, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>, Jonas Klink <klink@google.com>, marcsil@windows.microsoft.com, simonp@opera.com, Tony Ross <tross@microsoft.com>, "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>, wai-xtech-request@w3.org
- Message-ID: <OFACFA12BE.2EE9956E-ONC12574F1.0079DC1E-C12574F1.007A19BC@us.ibm.com>
This part wasn't logged ... commitments to work on the various specs proposed: 1. HTML+ARIA to DOM API : commitment by Aaron Leventhal (IBM) and Jonas Klink (Google) 2. HTML DOM (with ARIA) to MSAA/IA2 : commitment by Aaron Leventhal (IBM) and Jonas Klink (Google) 3. HTML DOM (with ARIA) to ATK/ATSPI : commitment by Aaron Leventhal (IBM) and Jonas Klink (Google) 4. HTML DOM (with ARIA) to MSAA/UIA Express : no commitments yet 5. HTML DOM (with ARIA) to Mac OSXA : no commitments yet Any commitments to work on these specs from some other ARIA implementors? - Aaron From: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS To: Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>, "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org> Cc: Aaron M Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM@IBMUS, Alfred.S.Gilman@ieee.org, alice.liu@apple.com, annevk@opera.com, Beth Dakin <bdakin@apple.com>, hsivonen@iki.fi, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>, Jonas Klink <klink@google.com>, marcsil@windows.microsoft.com, simonp@opera.com, Tony Ross <tross@microsoft.com> Date: 10/29/2008 11:04 PM Subject: Re: Need to discuss: normative spec for exposing ARIA via APIs Michael raises an important point. I am replying to Michael and xtech to get the discussion logged and we continue the discussion. Rich Rich Schwerdtfeger Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer Michael Cooper ---10/29/2008 04:06:12 PM---I'm getting a little concerned that ideas are maturing in this discussion, but not all the right people are necessarily at the Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org> 10/29/2008 04:05 PM To Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS cc Jonas Klink <klink@google.com>, Aaron M Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM@IBMUS, Alfred.S.Gilman@ieee.org, alice.liu@apple.com, annevk@opera.com, Beth Dakin <bdakin@apple.com>, hsivonen@iki.fi, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>, marcsil@windows.microsoft.com, simonp@opera.com, Tony Ross <tross@microsoft.com> Subject Re: Need to discuss: normative spec for exposing ARIA via APIs I'm getting a little concerned that ideas are maturing in this discussion, but not all the right people are necessarily at the table yet. This thread isn't even taking place on an archived list. As I mentioned in an earlier reply, there was some agreement on directions related to this documented at http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-role-minutes.html, and all the people involved in that discussion would want to participate in this one as well. Could I ask that this discussion be moved to the wai-xtech@w3.org list? We'll need a recap of what's been discussed so far. If you prefix your subject line with "[Role]" it will help establish continuity with the discussion that took place in the HTML breakout session last week. Anybody on the cc list to this message who is not on the xtech distribution, please let me know and I'll add you. Again, I'm not able to offer substantive help with this process until next week. But if someone could look after the above I think it will help us to be in a better place for moving forward. Michael Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: That is great. This is looking like a normative spec which defines: HTML+ARIA to DOM API HTML DOM (with ARIA) to MSAA/IA2 HTML DOM (with ARIA) to ATK/ATSPI HTML DOM (with ARIA) to MSAA/UIA Express HTML DOM (with ARIA) to Mac OSXA This would include how events are generated on each platform. Unless anyone here believes one of these is not ready. If not, we could do a second revision of the spec. when they are. I would not try to tackle SVG as we have no proven solution. The SVG working group may be upset but we could say that this can be done later. Michael, how many platforms do we actually need to support in the first implementation guide? I don't want to try and boil an ocean if someone is not ready. Rich Rich Schwerdtfeger Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer "Jonas Klink" ---10/29/2008 12:34:07 PM---I personally (and Google) see no reason why we should not be able to move forward with describing the deliverables at this poin "Jonas Klink" <klink@google.com> 10/29/2008 12:33 PM To "Michael Cooper" <cooper@w3.org> cc Aaron M Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM@IBMUS, Alfred.S.Gilman@ieee.org, marcsil@windows.microsoft.com, Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, simonp@opera.com, hsivonen@iki.fi, "Beth Dakin" <bdakin@apple.com>, alice.liu@apple.com, "James Craig" <jcraig@apple.com>, annevk@opera.com, "Tony Ross" <tross@microsoft.com> Subject Re: Need to discuss: normative spec for exposing ARIA via APIs I personally (and Google) see no reason why we should not be able to move forward with describing the deliverables at this point. Even though we are not implementation-wise quite there yet, I do think we have a clear picture of where this is heading. - Jonas On 10/28/08, Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org> wrote: FYI the HTML WG had a breakout session on a topic very much the same as this. While we didn't take careful notes, what we have is at http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-role-minutes.html. My feeling coming out of that session was that we had some additional ideas for next directions. The issue of people who can represent the various accessibility APIs remains. My own involvement in this process is restricted for this week, due to conflicting responsibilities. I plan to come back to this next week and hopefully offer substantive support from there on. Michael Aaron M Leventhal wrote: What's the next step to bring this into the W3C? Apple, Opera and Google have indicated they are not far enough along in implementation to make deep contributions to such a spec. As I see it, that leaves Microsoft and Mozilla as the two main drivers. Unfortunately, Microsoft and Mozilla use different APIs to extend beyond MSAA. By itself is only enough to support ARIA widgets. Mozilla uses IAccessible2, and Microsoft uses UIA Express (correct?) to get beyond these limitations. We can standardize on things like object and text attributes used to expose ARIA properties, but there will be some places where API specifics will differ. On Linux, I'm not sure if there is a browser vendor outside of Mozilla very focused on supporting ARIA via ATK/AT-SPI. However, it is at least very close to IAccessible2. And, if we want to have anything meaningful for how ARIA is exposed on a Mac, we will need input from Apple, Google Opera, who have expressed that there is no one full time working on ARIA support, and that it is not clear when they'll be ready to solidly contribute this information. Here's a chart that describes my understanding of where each vendor is focusing in efforts to expose ARIA: Mozilla: MSAA+IA2, ATK, OS X Accessibility Protocol Microsoft: MSAA + UIA Express Google/Apple/WebKit: OS X Accessibility Protocol, MSAA(+IA2?), ATK? Opera: OS X Accessibility Protocol, MSAA(+IA2?), ATK? I'm sure we can work out a lot of issues as we go through the doc, but I'm not sure what kind of commitment can be made. In the current environment it doesn't look like we can do a satisfactory job of describing the mapping to all APIs. Can we describe the deliverables so that we can be successful even where API specifics aren't ready? Or do the individual API specifics need to be both normative and complete for every platform? I don't see why they do. - Aaron -- Michael Cooper Web Accessibility Specialist World Wide Web Consortium, Web Accessibility Initiative E-mail cooper@w3.org Information Page -- Michael Cooper Web Accessibility Specialist World Wide Web Consortium, Web Accessibility Initiative E-mail cooper@w3.org Information Page[attachment "pic08967.gif" deleted by Aaron M Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM]
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Received on Wednesday, 29 October 2008 22:14:27 UTC