- From: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:01:26 -0500
- To: Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>, "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>
- Cc: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com>, Alfred.S.Gilman@ieee.org, alice.liu@apple.com, annevk@opera.com, Beth Dakin <bdakin@apple.com>, hsivonen@iki.fi, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>, Jonas Klink <klink@google.com>, marcsil@windows.microsoft.com, simonp@opera.com, Tony Ross <tross@microsoft.com>
- Message-ID: <OFA407CB28.3FA95FE5-ON862574F1.007860E3-862574F1.0078FB35@us.ibm.com>
Michael raises an important point. I am replying to Michael and xtech to
get the discussion logged and we continue the discussion.
Rich
Rich Schwerdtfeger
Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
Michael Cooper
<cooper@w3.org>
To
10/29/2008 04:05 Richard
PM Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
cc
Jonas Klink <klink@google.com>,
Aaron M
Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM@IBMUS,
Alfred.S.Gilman@ieee.org,
alice.liu@apple.com,
annevk@opera.com, Beth Dakin
<bdakin@apple.com>,
hsivonen@iki.fi, James Craig
<jcraig@apple.com>,
marcsil@windows.microsoft.com,
simonp@opera.com, Tony Ross
<tross@microsoft.com>
Subject
Re: Need to discuss: normative spec
for exposing ARIA via APIs
I'm getting a little concerned that ideas are maturing in this discussion,
but not all the right people are necessarily at the table yet. This thread
isn't even taking place on an archived list. As I mentioned in an earlier
reply, there was some agreement on directions related to this documented at
http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-role-minutes.html, and all the people involved
in that discussion would want to participate in this one as well.
Could I ask that this discussion be moved to the wai-xtech@w3.org list?
We'll need a recap of what's been discussed so far. If you prefix your
subject line with "[Role]" it will help establish continuity with the
discussion that took place in the HTML breakout session last week. Anybody
on the cc list to this message who is not on the xtech distribution, please
let me know and I'll add you.
Again, I'm not able to offer substantive help with this process until next
week. But if someone could look after the above I think it will help us to
be in a better place for moving forward.
Michael
Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
That is great. This is looking like a normative spec which defines:
HTML+ARIA to DOM API
HTML DOM (with ARIA) to MSAA/IA2
HTML DOM (with ARIA) to ATK/ATSPI
HTML DOM (with ARIA) to MSAA/UIA Express
HTML DOM (with ARIA) to Mac OSXA
This would include how events are generated on each platform.
Unless anyone here believes one of these is not ready. If not, we
could do a second revision of the spec. when they are.
I would not try to tackle SVG as we have no proven solution. The SVG
working group may be upset but we could say that this can be done
later.
Michael, how many platforms do we actually need to support in the
first implementation guide? I don't want to try and boil an ocean if
someone is not ready.
Rich
Rich Schwerdtfeger
Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
Inactive hide details for "Jonas Klink" ---10/29/2008 12:34:07 PM---I
personally (and Google) see no reason why we should not b"Jonas
Klink" ---10/29/2008 12:34:07 PM---I personally (and Google) see no
reason why we should not be able to move forward with describing the
deliverables at this poin
"Jonas Klink"
<klink@google.co
m>
To
10/29/2008 12:33
PM "Michael Cooper" <cooper@w3.org>
cc
Aaron M Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM@IBMUS,
Alfred.S.Gilman@ieee.org,
marcsil@windows.microsoft.com, Richard
Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS,
simonp@opera.com, hsivonen@iki.fi, "Beth
Dakin" <bdakin@apple.com>,
alice.liu@apple.com, "James Craig"
<jcraig@apple.com>, annevk@opera.com, "Tony
Ross" <tross@microsoft.com>
Subject
Re: Need to discuss: normative spec for
exposing ARIA via APIs
I personally (and Google) see no reason why we should not be able to
move forward with describing the deliverables at this point. Even
though we are not implementation-wise quite there yet, I do think we
have a clear picture of where this is heading.
- Jonas
On 10/28/08, Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org> wrote:
FYI the HTML WG had a breakout session on a topic very much the
same as this. While we didn't take careful notes, what we have
is at http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-role-minutes.html.
My feeling coming out of that session was that we had some
additional ideas for next directions. The issue of people who
can represent the various accessibility APIs remains.
My own involvement in this process is restricted for this week,
due to conflicting responsibilities. I plan to come back to
this next week and hopefully offer substantive support from
there on.
Michael
Aaron M Leventhal wrote:
What's the next step to bring this into the W3C?
Apple, Opera and Google have indicated they are not
far enough along in implementation to make deep
contributions to such a spec. As I see it, that
leaves Microsoft and Mozilla as the two main
drivers.
Unfortunately, Microsoft and Mozilla use different
APIs to extend beyond MSAA. By itself is only
enough to support ARIA widgets. Mozilla uses
IAccessible2, and Microsoft uses UIA Express
(correct?) to get beyond these limitations. We can
standardize on things like object and text
attributes used to expose ARIA properties, but
there will be some places where API specifics will
differ.
On Linux, I'm not sure if there is a browser vendor
outside of Mozilla very focused on supporting ARIA
via ATK/AT-SPI. However, it is at least very close
to IAccessible2.
And, if we want to have anything meaningful for how
ARIA is exposed on a Mac, we will need input from
Apple, Google Opera, who have expressed that there
is no one full time working on ARIA support, and
that it is not clear when they'll be ready to
solidly contribute this information.
Here's a chart that describes my understanding of
where each vendor is focusing in efforts to expose
ARIA:
Mozilla: MSAA+IA2, ATK, OS X Accessibility Protocol
Microsoft: MSAA + UIA Express
Google/Apple/WebKit: OS X Accessibility Protocol,
MSAA(+IA2?), ATK?
Opera: OS X Accessibility Protocol, MSAA(+IA2?),
ATK?
I'm sure we can work out a lot of issues as we go
through the doc, but I'm not sure what kind of
commitment can be made. In the current environment
it doesn't look like we can do a satisfactory job
of describing the mapping to all APIs.
Can we describe the deliverables so that we can be
successful even where API specifics aren't ready?
Or do the individual API specifics need to be both
normative and complete for every platform? I don't
see why they do.
- Aaron
--
Michael Cooper
Web Accessibility Specialist
World Wide Web Consortium, Web Accessibility Initiative
E-mail cooper@w3.org
Information Page
--
Michael Cooper
Web Accessibility Specialist
World Wide Web Consortium, Web Accessibility Initiative
E-mail cooper@w3.org
Information Page
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Received on Wednesday, 29 October 2008 22:02:30 UTC