Re: ACTION Item: Rich review Accordon

Hi;

So it's not lost - I'm all for harmonizing Accordion with Tabbed Pane now
that multiSelection is the strategy. There is a hole in Tabbed Pane that
looks to need filling tho, more below.

Responses inline, EJ2.

On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>wrote:

>  Hi Earl,
>
> Response below.
>
>
> Rich
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
> blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
>
> "Earl Johnson" <earlj.biker@gmail.com> wrote on 10/09/2008 01:00:49 PM:
>
> > "Earl Johnson" <earlj.biker@gmail.com>
> > 10/09/2008 01:00 PM
> >
> > To
> >
> > Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> >
> > cc
> >
> > "wai-xtech@w3.org WAI-XTECH" <wai-xtech@w3.org>, Becky Gibson/
> > Westford/IBM@Lotus, "Protocols and Formats Working Group WG" <w3c-
> > wai-pf@w3.org>
> >
> > Subject
> >
> > Re: ACTION Item: Rich review Accordon
> >
> > Hi;
> >
> > Inline.
>
> > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:51 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com
> > > wrote:
> > A lot of great work by the style guide team!
> >
> > I am reading the accordion style guide and have a number of
> > questions. Initial impression is it is too complicated, largely due
> > to the pop-up menu piece and inconsistencies with tabpanel:
> > EJ  The one most benefiting of simplification is Tab navigation.
> > Since you observe, in what ways might you simplify the complexities
> > that aren't covered below?
> >
> >
> > Why does an accordion have to have a menu? This sounds like an
> > additional feature. Anything can have a context menu so why must
> > this be specific to an accordion. Shouldn't shift+F10 be the same
> > for all pop-up context menus?
> > EJ  It doesn't have to.be; the style guide spec included it to give
> > guidance on what to do if it was included. I assume you mention
> > shift+F10 because of control+F10. Shift+F10 should be what was
> > recommended instead.
> What I am suggesting is to have a set of global keyboard commands - ones
> that
> apply to all widgets. We used this concept for ARIA properties.
>
> I am also looking at this like the inheritance model we have in ARIA. I
> would like
> accordion to be thought of as a subclass of tabpanel. Consequently, as many
> of the
> keyboard commands used in tabpanel should be used in accordion.
>
> So, looking at inheritance, why couldn't a notebook tab have a menu button?
>

EJ2   No reason at all. My statement was meant to say "let it support both
so UE folks have the choice when they design a UI."


>
> Note: I tried ctrl up/down in the example you gave and it did not work.
>
> >    Donald: Would you change Control+F10 to Shift+F10 to ffix my
> > mistake, this keeps coming up.?
>
>
> I am not sure what the difference is between the two other than ctrl+F10
> brings you
> to the browser menu on Windows. I think context menu launching should be
> system wide.
>
EJ2   Agreed. CNTRL+F10 should be changed to SHIFT+F10.


>
> > Why does tabpanel not support space or enter to open the panel?
> > James Craig said you wanted the behavior closer to tabpanel yet you
> > have an inconsistency.
> > EJ   It does. Here's the excerpt.
> > Enter/Space
> > Toggles the accordion  Content open [or close] when Input Focus is
> > on its accordion tab Label
> >
> Earl, you misunderstood the question. Why does tabpanel (not the accordion)
> not support enter/space?
> It is inconsistent with accordion which does.
>
> http://dev.aol.com/dhtml_style_guide#tabpanel
>

 EJ2   Enter/Space was chosen in part because it didn't look like Tabbed
Panel provided this. As a note, my preference if key choices is Cntrl+Page
Down.


>
> > Why does accordion not support alt+del like tabpanel?
> > EJ   The accordion example I was defining keynav for [below] didn't
> > call for the function in its spec and our styleguide review didn't
> > catch it was missing. I'm curious tho, what use applications would
> > an accordion widget with deletable panes be used for?
>
> I don't know. Again, I want to emphasize the inheritance model. If an
> accordion were a multiselectable tabpanel and a tabpanel allowed the user
> to delete
> a panel, why shouldn't the accordion? What is so special about the
> accordion that
> you would not allow this?
>

EJ2   My short answer here is I'm ok with adding the Alt+Del feature. Read
above for why it wasn't originally speced.


> > What are the interactive glyphs on the tab header? Why could these
> > not be placed on a pop-up context menu. Seems like it complicates
> > the UI. We had a similar discussion with the IBM mashup team.
> > EJ   The spec I defined keynav for used glyphs whose functions are
> > akin to the window manager's Minimize, Maximize, Close glyphs.
>
> Did you mean collapse all, expand all, an refresh? How do you get to these
> with
> the keyboard?
>

EJ2    By pressing the Tab key, I believe they are buttons. Note - this
could have just as easily been the Shift+F10 context menu you mention, see
discussion above also.


>
> > Glyphs or Popup are each legitemate UI design choices.
> > Do you have a link to an example we can see on the Monday ARIA call?
> > EJ   See
> http://webdev2.sun.com/example/faces/accordion/a11yAccordion.jsp
> >
> >       It set the wairole as a tablist. Keynav is a bit quirky for meat
> times.
> >
> >
> > Ear;l
>
>
> Please come to the Monday PF call.
>

EJ2    I'm sorry but I couldn't attend. Depending on the time, I can make
next Monday, 8/20,  tho.


>
>
> >
> > Suggestion per the ARIA call this week:
> >
> > - Give the accordion a role of "tabpanel" but assign it the aria-
> > multiselectable property. This would indicate to the AT that this
> > was a multislectable tabpanel which a screen reader could say
> > "accordion." This menus that multiple tabs could be selected at a
> > time. Authors would then be required to set the aria-selected="true"
> > on each selected (opened) tab.
> >
> > I am putting this on the ARIA call for Monday. Addressing accordion
> > is something we need to do. We would like to do so by reusing
> > existing ARIA roles and properties.
> >
> > For quick reference: http://dev.aol.com/dhtml_style_guide#accordion
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
> > Rich Schwerdtfeger
> > Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
> > blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/schwer
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Earl
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/earljohnson1
> > earlj.biker@gmail.com
>



-- 
Earl
http://www.linkedin.com/in/earljohnson1
earlj.biker@gmail.com