- From: Evans, Donald <Donald.Evans@corp.aol.com>
- Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:27:57 -0400
- To: <DHTML_ACCESSIBILITY@LISTSERV.AOL.COM>, <wai-xtech@w3.org>
-----Original Message----- From: Gregory J. Rosmaita [mailto:oedipus@hicom.net] Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 1:06 PM To: Evans, Donald Subject: draft minutes from 27 july 2007 DHTML call [1]W3C [1] http://www.w3.org/ - DRAFT - DHTML Sub-team Teleconference 27 Jul 2007 See also: [2]IRC log [2] http://www.w3.org/2007/07/27-wai-xtech-irc Attendees Present Al_Gilman, Becky_Gibson, Lisa_Papas, Becky_Gibson, Chris_Blouch, Gregory_J._Rosmaita, Don Evans Regrets Chair Scribe Gregory J. Rosmaita Contents * [3]Topics 1. [4]checkboxes * [5]Summary of Action Items _________________________________________________________ <scribe> scribe: Gregory J. Rosmaita <scribe> scribenick: oedipus Becky: if say right-left arrow with menu posted -- does that mean drop down? perhaps is covered (read from draft); with any level it would be same, right? ... spacebar opens actionable item -- exposes or executes? ... when have focus on menu item, pressing enter will execute the menu action GJR: XHTML2 group interested in 3 states: give focus, hang-fire (inspect), and fire Becky: nested menus -- not a drop-down menu -- or rather is but vertical instead of horizontal AG: how do you integrate abstract tree behavior Becky: right need both AlG: use menu or menubar consistently should be in best prActices ... if works like menubar, should follow menu keyboard conventions Becky: ok <scribe> ACTION: Becky - post to xtech [recorded in [6]http://www.w3.org/2007/07/27-wai-xtech-minutes.html#action01] Don: checkboxes? Becky: can do without proposal; should decide next one before telecon concludes so can discuss next meeting Chris: which keys are available by script events if running IE on Windows with JAWS or Window-Eyes? GJR: there is a passthrough key in most screen readers AlG: gregory explained how to get through screen-reader, but doesn't mean can get to application or script ... highly educated best-guess at keybindings that will work without conflict; some will require alternate methods; separate line of development around reengineering accesskey -- poster child for fuzzy implementatino and definition; need to be some kind of ARIA approach to getting raw materials in to bind to <scribe> DonE: beginning to build javascript applications for applications; doing tree views, tab interfaces, etc.; not gracefully handled by at AlG: grep accessibility lists (w3c-wai-ua@w3.org) for accesskey GJR: start with existing keybindings defined by devs AlG: angle in action item to SAP to come up with working input tokenizer (text entry field with hidden grammar to check contents of text entry field) -- they have a validate action -- user can request it -- trick is hotkey in text edit mode also next to a button performing same fucntionality; style guide - anything give keybinding to somewhere there is an isolated action that could be pre-validated -- need right association between label on button and lab ... need second level in overall methodology Chris: attempted to take WinXP, MSIE7 and JAWS to ascertain what keys are already mapped -- short list; check against mozilla, even less; add window-eyes and you're left with nothing AlG: widget roles for keyboard access valuable because so much keybindings in AT Chris: handle elsewhere? AlG: perceive problem, use cases will get others to solve problem; need test interaction and usability ... part of the solution -- can machine follow from edit box with hotkey to the label that triggers the same event; stress in programming style level Chris: just wanted to ensure issue on table AlG: fact that have an issue is clear; what we need is a solution, which Becky is working on Becky: going to come into conflicts; how does user move focus from rich text editor to toolbar then back to rich text editor; can't make tabbable, will have to assign a key; will come up with proposal for dojo and submit to DHTML for consideration <scribe> DonE: IE7 versus IE6 -- tabindex of positive number to DIV or SPAN to get focus -- any difference between IE6 and IE7? Becky: not had to do anything different for IE6 and IE7 AlG: if have test case, bring up to mark silvey -- microsoft rep to PF; Don: some works in IE6 some in IE7, in our experience checkboxes Becky: checkboxes have checked, unchecked - space is trigger AlG: how many systems support that? Becky: have to check; for radio buttons, enter isn't supported; checkboxes enter and space GJR: tri-state for checkbox; Becky: isn't it part of group? what is use case AlG: software install -- summary install -- get checkboxes in advanced mode, can partially check options <scribe> DonE: how do you trigger a partially checked check? Becky: only a programmatic state? AlG: if activate custom, enter dialog; if use to check and uncheck, will push a partial? ... if using WAI ARIA states on checkbox, can have partial value <scribe> DonE: ARIA states checked unchecked partially checked -- question is, which is child of other Becky: IE7 only supports 2 options ... don't use key if grouped - go from one to another AlG: caret in edit box, hit enter and submitted form, rather than making newline in text field Becky: how to do that without a save or cancel button is still unknown Chris: checked or unchecked - partial derived state -- programmatically set Becky: checked and unchecked by mouse click or spacebar -- a toggle <scribe> DonE: partial checkbox is programmatically determined Becky: specify that all checkboxes have labels? AlG: spec will require that -- can help people in coaching on good practice Chris: inverse - if on partially checked checkbox and hit space should all children be affected? typical GUI behavior AlG: chasing a will'o'the wisp -- if light, full and custom are 3 choices, hitting spacebar should get you into finer grain Becky: is a case where use GUI app, have nested checkboxes; pick one, top-level checkbox shows partial AlG: does spacebar select all or clear all -- what is sequence <scribe> DonE: partial to off to on -- can't get back to partial; if hit spacebar, turns it off, if go into details all children checkboxes have been cleared Chris: font list - if turn on half of them, should first click on partially checked checkbox AlG: need to check other apps to find out if uniformity applied <scribe> DonE: reflected in options GJR: often when use multiple select option, often loose focus when inspecting options; could substitute checkboxes with partial states (lynx model: comobo boxes as radio buttons; multiple select combo boxes as checkboxes) Becky: mapped browser behavior, stick a style rule over it, for performance reasons decided to let UA do most of the work; AlG: pragmatic decision need to spell out clearly in Best Practices; clear conflict between browser behavior between browsers -- there is an HTML coding for radio button functionality, best practice is don't script, use HTML/XHTML -- feel will be different on different UAs, <scribe> DonE: checkboxes: 2 state and 3 state; 2 state select or deselect with space; 3 state if partially checked, spacebar fully checked and so are child elements LisaP: from SAP, volunteered to be integrator editor for best practices document which include keybinding decisions <scribe> DonE: valueable skill LisaP: about a month away <scribe> DonE: recommendations for agenda? Becky: Earl has a lot to say about issues posted to list; not sure ready to share -- brings up issues for ARIA team -- dojo accordian container just a tab container, earl working on much more complex accordion -- have to figure out how to distinguish through UI; will ping Earl offlist ... need to add a few more use cases for menus to ensure they are covered AlG: request for ChrisB - how to construct context menus ChrisB: how to move focus to create a dom event that at notices AlG: agenda items for this group or no? ChrisB: generalized technique -- how some of these things can be implemented AlG: input tokenizer needs menus; RichS working on drag-and-drop which includes menus ... idea of a prologue -- authored introduction; is there markup for author to indicate "this is what you need to pay attention to" -- blew off aw custom rule, but still a use case hanging out there; ... context help and prologue -- need use cases Becky: need to address tabindex behavior and focus; one thing in control taht has tabindex=0 -- do we agree? should we make it official? from forum questions, think need to address AlG: may need 2 techniques: one that relies on ARIA support, one that shous how built-in portions of ML can be effectively used ... RichS has put work into talking about use cases on PF/ARIA wiki [7]http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/ARIA [7] http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/ARIA GJR: will send IRC log to DonE Summary of Action Items [NEW] ACTION: Becky - post to xtech [recorded in [8]http://www.w3.org/2007/07/27-wai-xtech-minutes.html#action01] [End of minutes]
Received on Friday, 27 July 2007 17:28:18 UTC