minutes: UAWG telecon 25 July 2013

from http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html- DRAFT - User Agent
Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 25 Jul 2013

See also: IRC log  http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-irc
<http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-irc>
Attendees
PresentJeanne, Jan, Jim_Allan, kford, sharper, +1.609.734.aaaa,
Greg_Lowney, +1.609.734.aabb, Eric, Kim_PatchRegretsChairSV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribekford
Contents

   - Topics <http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. timeline <http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#item01>
      2. Jan Proposal <http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#item02>
      3. Jan Proposal - rewording GL1.1
SCs<http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#item03>
      4. 1.1.3 <http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#item04>
      5. 1.1.4 <http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#item05>
      6. 1.1.5 <http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#item06>
      7. 1.1.6 <http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#item07>
   - Summary of Action
Items<http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------

<trackbot> Date: 25 July 2013

<allanj> -

<allanj> turn security

<allanj> paragraph

<allanj> i

<allanj> n overview to note in 4.1
timeline

<scribe> Scribe: kford

JA: We need to looooooook timeline.
... Origianlly we were going to be at last call.
... Not going to make it.
... On Kelly and myself to keep on more on Track.

JS: Critical item to get on track is to finsih comments.
... That was finish.

J

JS gives shout out to Jan and says we all need to improve on proposals.
Jan Proposal

<jeanne> JS: Everyone please take 2-3 item that are on the spreadsheet
labeled "Needs Proposal" and write proposals.

JA: Taking up JR's proposal.

JR and JA sorting out what proposal this is.

<allanj> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0006.html

JA: This started as an action item from two weeks ago.
... This proposal is to put the texst under GL 4.1.

<allanj> proposal: add note to 4.1

<allanj> Note: Some approaches to implementing success criteria in this
guideline, and elsewhere in UAAG 2.0, may have security implications. It is
the responsibility of UAAG 2.0 implementers to ensure that user agent
security is not compromised.

GL: This makes it sound like it is all up to the UA developer but I think
we mean that this isn't really all up to the UA dev but more on the
platform devs. I think this paragraph gives the backward impression.
... Does that make sense?

JS: Yes but how would you say it?

Group still sorting things out on where proposal came from.

<Jan> Here's the comments:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/commentsWD-20130701.html

<Greg> I would add something like "UAAG 2.0 assumes that platform
accessibility API will be built on top of underlying security architectures
that will allow user agents to comply with both the success criteria and
security needs."

<jeanne> +1

<Greg> Editors can shorten it a bit later.

Group working through issues and settling on rewording by GL.

JA: Any objections?

None heard.

Resolved: Update with rewording above from GL.

<Greg> It's pretty strange to have a Note under 4.1 that explicitly says it
is also about things outside of 4.1.

More discussion about location of text being discussed and applicability.

JR: My biggest concern was just that this was in the overview. Overviews
generally cover what comes later but this doesn't come later.

<allanj> Resolution: add UAAG 2.0 assumes that platform accessibility API
will be built on top of underlying security architectures that will allow
user agents to comply with both the success criteria and security needs. as
a note to GL 4.1 remove text in conceptual overview

JA: But there were not big objections so we are going to do this still.

<allanj> close action-848

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-848 Turn security paragraph in overview into a
proposed note for the programmatic access GL.
Jan Proposal - rewording GL1.1 SCs

<Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0008.html

JR going through proposal.

JR reading current proposal.

EH: This seems clearer.

<allanj> +1 to Jan's rewording

<allanj> resolution: new 1.1.1 wording 1.1.1 Render Alternative Content:
The user can choose to render any type of recognized alternative content
that are present for a content element. (Level A)

<allanj> - Note: It is recommended that the user agent allow the user to
choose whether the alternative content replaces or supplements the original
content element.

JR: Moving something from 1.31D to this area.

GL: What are you referencing?

<Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0008.html

<Jan> "NEW (WAS PART OF 1.3.1)"

JR: By moving here, we are being less perscriptive about how to make these
indicators and adding clarity to what we want by putting it in this
document.

<allanj> proposed: 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user
can specify that indicators be displayed with rendered content when
recognized unrendered alternative content is present. (Level A)

<allanj> remove "d" in 1.3.1

<Jan> *ACTION:*JR write new IER for 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered Alternative
Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed with rendered
content when recognized unrendered alternative content is present. (Level
A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<Jan> *ACTION:* JR write new IER for 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered Alternative
Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed with rendered
content when recognized unrendered alternative content is present. (Level
A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-852 - Write new IER for 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered
Alternative Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed with
rendered content when recognized unrendered alternative content is present.
(Level A) [on Jan Richards - due 2013-08-01].

<allanj> resolution: add 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The
user can specify that indicators be displayed with rendered content when
recognized unrendered alternative content is present. (Level A)

Moving to next item.

1.1.2

<allanj> CURRENT: 1.1.2 Replace Non-Text Content: The user can have all
recognized non-text content replaced by alternative content, placeholders,
or both. (Level A)

<allanj> - Note: At level A, the user agent can specify that an alternative
content or placeholder replace the non-text content. At level AA success
criterion 1.1.3 requires that the user can specify one format or
placeholder to be used. At level AAA success criterion 1.1.5 requires that
the user can specify a cascade order of types of alternative content to be
used.

JR reading again.

<allanj> PROPOSED: 1.1.2 Non-Text Content Placeholder: The user can request
a placeholder incorporating recognized text alternative content instead of
recognized non-text content, until explicit user request to load the
non-text content. (Level A)

GL: A verb sir, we need a verb.

<Jan> JR: Trying to match: 2.11.2 Execution Placeholder: The user can
request a placeholder instead of executable content that would normally be
contained within an on-screen area (e.g. Applet, Flash), until explicit
user request to execute. (Level A)

<Greg> "can request a placeholder...be rendered instead of..." but that's
editorial.

JA: Any objections to the new proposal?

<allanj> ok with me

JA: Editor will sort out last details.

No objections heard.

<allanj> resolution: add new wording 1.1.2 Non-Text Content Placeholder:
The user can request a placeholder incorporating recognized text
alternative content instead of recognized non-text content, until explicit
user request to load the non-text content. (Level A)
1.1.3

<allanj> CURRENT: 1.1.3 Configurable Alternative Content Defaults: For each
type of content that can have alternative content, the user can specify a
type of alternative content that, if present, will be rendered by default.
(Level AA)

<allanj> PROPOSED: 1.1.3 Configurable Alternative Content Defaults: For
each type of non-text content, including time-based media, the user can
specify which type(s) of alternative content to render by default, if
present. (Level AA)

<allanj> Note: Some types of content may allow multiple simultaneous
alternatives (e.g. captions and sign language).

<allanj> +1

<jeanne> *ACTION:* jeanne to look at 1.3.1 and see if any examples depend
on (d)elements with alternative content [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-853 - Look at 1.3.1 and see if any examples
depend on (d)elements with alternative content [on Jeanne F Spellman - due
2013-08-01].

Group having a discussion about type or types.

GL: We need to be clear about if a choice is to be made by the user or the
developer.

<allanj> resolution: change wording for 1.1.3 Configurable Alternative
Content Defaults: For each type of non-text content, including time-based
media, the user can specify which type(s) of alternative content to render
by default, if present. (Level AA)

No further objections.
1.1.4

Now moving to 1.1.4

<allanj> 1.1.4 Display of Alternative Content for Time-Based Media: For
recognized on-screen alternative content for time-based media (e.g.
captions, sign language video), the following are all true: (Level AA)

<allanj> - Don't obscure controls: Displaying time-based media alternatives
doesn't obscure recognized controls for the primary time-based media; and

<allanj> - Don't obscure primary media: The user can specify that
displaying time-based media alternatives doesn't obscure the primary
time-based media; and

<allanj> - Use configurable text: The user can configure recognized text
within time-based media alternatives (e.g. captions) in conformance with
1.4.1.

<allanj> - Note: Depending on the screen area available, the display of the
primary time-based media may need to be reduced in size to meet this
requirement.

JR: Change doesn't seem dramatic.

<allanj> *ACTION:* jim to compare 1.1.4 - obscure media with the media task
force guidelines [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-854 - Compare 1.1.4 - obscure media with the
media task force guidelines [on Jim Allan - due 2013-08-01].

Group talking about backgrounds for captions.

SH: Are captions different from subtitles?

SH Talks about some work being done by the BBC to move location of
subtitles based on user focus.

Group having extensive discussion about does the caption have to be
separated from the video.

Issue is that if you make captions so big you start obscuring video.

The situation is boiling down to what happens when youmake caption text so
big that you hide too much of the video.

JR: How about if we define obscure and talk about this issue there.

<Jan> *ACTION:* JR to define "obscure" to allow transparent backgrounds but
also raising the possibility of seperation where screen real estate is
available [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action05
]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-855 - Define "obscure" to allow transparent
backgrounds but also raising the possibility of seperation where screen
real estate is available [on Jan Richards - due 2013-08-01].

<allanj> PF media task force information
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-media-accessibility-reqs-20120103/#requirements-on-the-use-of-the-viewport

<allanj> close action-854

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-854 Compare 1.1.4 - obscure media with the media
task force guidelines.

<allanj> resolution: to reword 1.1.4 to 1.1.4 Display of Alternative
Content for Time-Based Media: For recognized on-screen alternative content
for time-based media (e.g. captions, sign language video), the following
are all true: (Level AA)

<allanj> - Don't obscure controls: Displaying time-based media alternatives
doesn't obscure recognized controls for the primary time-based media; and

<allanj> - Don't obscure primary media: The user can specify that
displaying time-based media alternatives doesn't obscure the primary
time-based media; and

<allanj> - Use configurable text: The user can configure recognized text
within time-based media alternatives (e.g. captions) in conformance with
1.4.1.

<allanj> - Note: Depending on the screen area available, the display of the
primary time-based media may need to be reduced in size to meet this
requirement.
1.1.5

<allanj> CURRENT: 1.1.5 Default Rendering of Alternative Content
(Enhanced): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify the
cascade order in which to render different types of alternative content
when preferred types are not present. (Level AAA)

<allanj> similar to jaws images - use alt, title, caption, longest

JR now going through next proposal.

Not likely to see anyne create this one.

JR talks about how JAWS does do this cascade.

JS: that would not count.
... JAWS is not a browser.

<allanj> +1 to removal

<allanj> kf: is JAWS a browser? it reads a bunch of the DOM.

<allanj> jaws requires a browser to download html

<allanj> resolution: delete 1.1.5
1.1.6

Group now looking at 1.1.6\

<allanj> PROPOSED REWORDING@: 1.1.6 Size and Position of Time-Based Media
Alternatives: The user can configure recognized alternative content for
time-based media (e.g. captions, sign language video) as follows: (Level
AAA)

<allanj> - The user can resize alternative content for time-based media up
to the size of the user agent's viewport.

<allanj> - The user can reposition alternative content for time-based media
to at least @TWO OF THE FOLLOWING: above, below, to the right, to the left,
and overlapping the primary time-based media.

<allanj> - Note 1: Depending on the screen area available, the display of
the primary time-based media may need to be reduced in size or hidden to
meet this requirement.

<allanj> - Note 2: Implementation may involve displaying alternative
content for time-based media in a separate viewport, but this is not
required.

Group agreeing on this.

<allanj> resolution: change 1.1.6 1.1.6 Size and Position of Time-Based
Media Alternatives: The user can configure recognized alternative content
for time-based media (e.g. captions, sign language video) as follows:
(Level AAA)

<allanj> allanj - The user can resize alternative content for time-based
media up to the size of the user agent's viewport.

<allanj> allanj - The user can reposition alternative content for
time-based media to at least two or more of the following: above, below, to
the right, to the left, and overlapping the primary time-based media.

<allanj> allanj - Note 1: Depending on the screen area available, the
display of the primary time-based media may need to be reduced in size or
hidden to meet this requirement.

<allanj> allanj - Note 2: Implementation may involve displaying alternative
content for time-based media in a separate viewport, but this is not
required.
 Summary of Action Items *[NEW]* *ACTION:* jeanne to look at 1.3.1 and see
if any examples depend on (d)elements with alternative content [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action03]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* jim to compare 1.1.4 - obscure media with the media task
force guidelines [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action04]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* JR to define "obscure" to allow transparent backgrounds
but also raising the possibility of seperation where screen real estate is
available [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action05
]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* JR write new IER for 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered
Alternative Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed with
rendered content when recognized unrendered alternative content is present.
(Level A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action01
]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* JR write new IER for 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered
Alternative Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed with
rendered content when recognized unrendered alternative content is present.
(Level A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action02
]

[End of minutes]
------------------------------

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator & Webmaster
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964