Minutes: User Agent Working Group call 11 August 2011

- DRAFT -
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
11 Aug 2011

See also: IRC log<http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-irc>

Attendees
Present
kford, +1.425.895.aaaa, Greg, Jeanne, sharper, +1.617.325.aabb, Kim
Regrets
Jim, Mark
Chair
Jim Allan, Kelly Ford
Scribe
Greg
Contents

  *   Topics<http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html#agenda>
     *   Prep for 8/18 writing session<http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html#item01>
  *   Summary of Action Items<http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

________________________________

<trackbot> Date: 11 August 2011

<kford> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 11 August 2011

<kford> hey there.

<kford> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0010.html

<kford> 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 1.10 1.11

<kford> 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 2.10 2.11

<kford> 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4

<kford> 4.2

<kford> 1.9.6 7 10 11 - focus (examples only)

<kford> 1.10.3 examples only

<kford> 1.11.1. extended Link info

<kford> 2.5.1 discover keystrokes

<kford> 2.5.2 access relationships

<kford> 2.5.7 Configure Set of Important Elements

<kford> 2.7.1 - 7 preference settings

<kford> 2.11.3, 2.11.4 execution placeholder and toggle

<kford> 2.11.6 Stop/Pause/Resume Time-Based Media

<kford> 2.11.7 Navigate Time-Based Media

<kford> 2.11.8 Semantic Navigation of Time-Based Media

<kford> 2.11.9 Track Enable/Disable of Time-Based Media 2.11.10 Sizing Playback Viewport: (examples)

<kford> 2.11.11 Scale and position alternative media tracks (examples)

<kford> 2.11.12 Adjust Playback Contrast and Brightness (examples)

<kford> 4.2.1-3 Nested user agents (focus)

<kford> Group starts by looking at survey.

<kford> Talking about 2.5.2.

<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20110718/

<jeanne> 1.11.1 is a duplicate of 2.5.2. 1.11.1 has IER.

1.11.1 is appropriate if it's meant to be about presenting info, 2.5.2 if it's meant to be about navigation.

1.11.1 Access Relationships:

The user can access explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g. show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table headers). (Level A) :

* Intent of Success Criterion 1.11.1:

Some users have difficulty perceiving, remembering, or understand the relationships between elements and their contexts. HTML controls and elements are sometimes grouped together to make up a composite control; certain elements relate to others in a recognizable manner, such as relationships with 'id' attributes and child elements. This is the case with Ajax widgets and with form...

scribe: elements. By making sure the user can be informed about these relationships means that, say, visually disabled users can better understand these relationships even if the elements are not adjacent on the screen or the DOM.

* Examples of Success Criterion 1.11.1:

o John has low vision and uses a screen magnifier to access his Browser. When interacting with tables and spreadsheets John has to move the viewport of the magnifier to understand the row and column titles of the cell with which he is interacting. This takes additional time and effort and is therefore frustrating. John has just purchased a new Browser because it presents the row...

scribe: and column titles when he hovers over a cell - this makes him much more productive at his accounting job.

* Related Resources for Success Criterion 1.11.1:

o WAI-ARIA

o UAAG 2.7.3 Location in Hierarchy

2.5.2 Access Relationships:

The user can access explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g. show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table headers). (Level A)

* Intent of Success Criterion 2.5.2 :

@@ Editors' Note: postponed for more information about the intent of this SC. Is it about providing flyover information? Or is it out of place and really belongs in Principle 2? @@

* Examples of Success Criterion 2.5.2 :

o To be written

* Related Resources for Success Criterion 2.5.2 :

o also see Success Criteria 4.7.x Location in Hierarchy

<kford> KF: Let's go with this in 1.11.1.

2.5 is about structural navigation, and 2.5.1 is about shortcut keys, so 2.5.1 doesn't belong there, it belongs in another guideline.

<kford> Group continuing to talk about location of items.

<kford> Discussion centering around what belongs in perceivable and operable.

There are two ways we could divide up discoverable from operable: the first is that anything the user sees (etc.) is under perceivable, and only what they actually do (input) is under operable; the second is that everything related to reading (etc.) is under perceivable while everything relating to input (including everything you need for keyboard shortcuts, etc.) is under operable.

Jeanne feels this should go with the rest of the accesskeys-related SC, which would be under 2.3 Direct Navigation and Activation.

Kelly thinks 1.10.3 is a duplicate of 2.5.7.

2.5.7 Configure Set of Important Elements:

The user has the option to configure the set of important elements for structured navigation, including by element type (e.g. headers, list items, images). (Level AAA) @@ Editor's note: Review the definition of "important elements" @@

1.10.3 Configure Set of Important Elements:

The user can configure the set of important elements for the hierarchical view, including by element type (e.g. headers). (Level AAA)

Actually 2.5.7 is "for structured navigation" while 1.10.3 is "for hierarchical view".

1.10.3 Configure Elements for Hierarchical Views, and 2.5.7 Configure Elements for Structured Navigation?

I think that 1.10.3 Configure Set of Important Elements for Hierarchical Views is a little long.

So I suggested just taking out "set of important" from each.

<KimPatch> configure important elements for structural navigation, configured important elements for hierarchical views

<kford> ACTION: JS to update titles for 1.10.3 and 2.5.7 to remove set of important from title and add elements being configured. See text from KP. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-603 - Update titles for 1.10.3 and 2.5.7 to remove set of important from title and add elements being configured. See text from KP. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-18].

<sharper> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0026.html

<sharper> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0026.html

<jeanne> Here is a proposal that Simon did in May http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0088.html

<kford> group now looking at duplicate entries.

<kford> GL goes through a list of dupes. We think we have addressed all he raised.

Went through table generated from June 9 draft and found total duplicate of 1.11.2 = 2.5.2, duplicate title for 2.5.7 = 1.10.3, and duplicates of 1.9.6 and 1.9.7 left over when they were moved and which we've already taken care of.

1.11.2 and 2.5.2 was Access Relationships, 2.5.7 and 1.10.3 was Configure Set of Important Elements, and 1.9.6 and 1.9.7 were Retrieve Focus and Return Focus respectively.

<kford> SH: I think we have had discussions around this. The thinking is that by complying with 4.1 an asssitive technology could do the end result of 2.5.2 and show relationships if it so chose.

I say we delete 2.5.2 (Access Relationships) since it's a duplicate of 1.11.1, but take an action item to decide whether we need to put equivalents of 1.11.1 rewritten to address navigation by relationships and and exposing relationships to assistive technology in 2.5 and 4.1 respectively.

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to delete 2.5.2 to renumber 2.5 appropriately. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-604 - Delete 2.5.2 to renumber 2.5 appropriately. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-18].

<sharper> ACTION: sharper to look at consolidation of 4.1 and 1.11 etc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-605 - Look at consolidation of 4.1 and 1.11 etc [on Simon Harper - due 2011-08-18].

In answer to Simon's comment, I used the term "Hierarchical View" instead of "Outline View" because the latter would make readers think of the specific implementations in Microsoft Word (and perhaps other products), and the actual range of possible implementations is much broader (e.g. HeadingsMap add-on for Firefox, etc.)

<kford> SH: We need to consolidate the language we use around these navigations and configurations.

I see 2.7 as the general mechanisms for how user preference settings should be configurable, storable, etc., but not about what settings should be provided; the latter would be scatted about the document.
Prep for 8/18 writing session
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to delete 2.5.2 to renumber 2.5 appropriately. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: JS to update titles for 1.10.3 and 2.5.7 to remove set of important from title and add elements being configured. See text from KP. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: sharper to look at consolidation of 4.1 and 1.11 etc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html#action03]