- From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:03:24 -0400 (EDT)
- To: Kitch Barnicle <kab42@columbia.edu>
- cc: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
I don't think this is about being able to make a selection - that is covered in the guideline on input-device independence. I think the idea of the checkpoint is that a user can can access all the content of a given element. In most cases the strict technical meaning of element content in XML and HTML is the same as the broader natural languages meaning. There are cases where this isn't so - for example, the value of the alt attribute can be understoood to be part of the content of the element in natural language terms, although it is not in the technical sense. We want something like ensuring that the user can make all the information provided for an element which is intended to be human-readable be rendered. (for example there is not much necessity to render the width of a frame, but it should be possible to get access to a title. In addition, there are complex elements like object which can have several different pieces of renderable information which is intended to be human-readable. I hope that someone can come up with some simpler wording which conveys the idea. Charles McCN On Fri, 20 Aug 1999, Kitch Barnicle wrote: Hi Ian, All of my comments appear at the top of this message. Now that I am trying to match up the checkpoints with users and technology, I too am a bit confused by checkpoint 7.2. 7.2 For dependent user agents. Ensure that the user has access to the content of an element selected by the user. [Priority 1] Is providing "access to the content of an element" different than allowing the user to select the content of an element? Is this related to the current problem that keyboard users face when they want to select an element (e.g. text) with the keyboard. Most, if not all, mainstream user agents only allow selection of a portion of a page with a pointing device. If so, why is this only for dependent user agents? Should the checkpoint be something like "Ensure that the user has can select the content of an element using any input device." Can someone select and element and still not have "access" to it? Thanks, Kitch At 12:28 PM 8/17/99 -0400, Ian Jacobs wrote: >thatch@us.ibm.com wrote: >> >> Current 8/11 checkpoint 7.2 reads: >> >> 7.2 For dependent user agents. Ensure that the user has >> access to the content of an element selected by the user. >> [Priority 1] >> >> I don't understand what this means. > >The intention is to allow the user to select content (e.g., >structured by element or text content that may span element >boundaries) and have it rendered as speech or braille. >UAs should also allow users to select content and find >out contextual information about it (e.g., row/colum >coordinates of a table cell). > >> And didn't find help in the techniques >> document. > >Alas, the techniques document has been slow to catch >up to the guidelines. We are turning our attention to it >more actively as we near last call. > >> Perhaps the problem comes from the phrase "element selected by the >> user." With the keyboard? With a mouse? > >With any supported input device. > >> Can any element be "selected." > >It's not just elements - it can be attribute values. I think >that the user should be able to select any rendered text content. >I believe that the user should be able to select any non-text >content as well, but there are undoubtedly implications to >be considered for graphics, etc. > >> If none >> can be selected, is 7.2 vacuously satisfied? > >Probably, we should clarify that this refers to content >rendered natively (i.e., not by a plug-in, etc.). > >Please let me know if this clarifies the checkpoint. If >not, or if you think there are issues, please let me know. > > - Ian > >-- >Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org) <http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs>http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs >Tel/Fax: +1 212 684-1814 > --Charles McCathieNevile mailto:charles@w3.org phone: +1 617 258 0992 http://www.w3.org/People/Charles W3C Web Accessibility Initiative http://www.w3.org/WAI MIT/LCS - 545 Technology sq., Cambridge MA, 02139, USA
Received on Sunday, 22 August 1999 18:03:25 UTC