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Re: Checkpoint 7.2

From: Kitch Barnicle <kab42@columbia.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:38:16 -0500
Message-Id: <199908201339.IAA17922@trace.wisc.edu>
To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
Hi Ian,

All of my comments appear at the top of this message.  Now that I am trying to
match up the checkpoints with users and technology, I too am a bit confused
checkpoint 7.2. 

7.2 For dependent user agents. Ensure that the user has access to the content
of an element selected by the user.     [Priority 1]

Is providing "access to the content of an element" different than allowing the
user to select the content of an element? Is this related to the current
problem that keyboard users face when they want to select an element (e.g.
text) with the keyboard. Most, if not all, mainstream user agents only allow
selection of a portion of a page with a pointing device.  If so, why is this
only for dependent user agents? Should the checkpoint be something like  
"Ensure that the user has can select  the content of an element using any
device."  Can someone select and element and still not have "access" to it?


At 12:28 PM 8/17/99 -0400, Ian Jacobs wrote:
>thatch@us.ibm.com wrote:
>> Current 8/11 checkpoint 7.2 reads:
>> 7.2 For dependent user agents. Ensure that the user has
>>       access to the content of an element selected by the user.
>>       [Priority 1]
>> I don't understand what this means. 
>The intention is to allow the user to select content (e.g.,
>structured by element or text content that may span element
>boundaries) and have it rendered as speech or braille. 
>UAs should also allow users to select content and find
>out contextual information about it (e.g., row/colum
>coordinates of a table cell).
>> And didn't find help in the techniques
>> document. 
>Alas, the techniques document has been slow to catch
>up to the guidelines. We are turning our attention to it
>more actively as we near last call.
>> Perhaps the problem comes from the phrase "element selected by the
>> user." With the keyboard? With a mouse?
>With any supported input device.
>> Can any element be "selected." 
>It's not just elements - it can be attribute values. I think
>that the user should be able to select any rendered text content.
>I believe that the user should be able to select any non-text
>content as well, but there are undoubtedly implications to
>be considered for graphics, etc.
>> If none
>> can be selected, is 7.2 vacuously satisfied?
>Probably, we should clarify that this refers to content
>rendered natively (i.e., not by a plug-in, etc.). 
>Please let me know if this clarifies the checkpoint. If
>not, or if you think there are issues, please let me know.
> - Ian
>Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org)  
>Tel/Fax:                     +1 212 684-1814
Received on Friday, 20 August 1999 09:39:23 UTC

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