- From: George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com>
- Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 14:45:57 -0600
- To: "'w3c-wai-ig'" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Hello folks, Well, I thought I would jump in... >From the digital publishing space, now part of the W3C, comes my question. Is this correct markup that would work for everybody? Let us say from this grammar book: In the following examples the words in bold are nouns, verbs are italic, adjectives are double-underlined, and adverbs are underlined. If the students would like to read the explicit semantics, please expand the details to find the part of speech immediately before the word. <p aria-details="#for-screen-readers">The <strong class="double-underline">red</strong> <b>fox</b> <em class="underline">quickly</em> <em>ran</em> away.</p> <details id="for-screen-readers"><summary>with explicit semantics</summary> The (adjective) red (noun) fox (adverb) quickly (verb) ran away.</details> Best George -----Original Message----- From: chagnon@pubcom.com <chagnon@pubcom.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 1:28 PM To: 'w3c-wai-ig' <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> Subject: RE: Bold vs Strong Great question, Janina. The concept of tags to indicate when text is italicized and bolded goes back to the mid- to late-1990s, if I recall correctly. 20 years ago. The idea was how could we convey the visual formatting we were putting on certain words for certain purposes. Both bold and italics are used to emphasize words, or stress them if they are being spoken. I know we also talked briefly about other uses of formatting, such as using bold to format headings (usually, but not always), and using italics for all sorts of text like publication titles, foreign words, medical and scientific terms, citations, ship names, and many more. But that part of the discussion faded and never went further. All these uses are just conventions of American English grammar; British grammar varies a bit, but is mostly the same. I doubt think that the emphasis and strong tags have worked out as well as we thought they would. One primary reason: how many assistive technologies actually recognize and announce them? Another is just as you mentioned: strong and emphasis can be swapped between bold and italics and it wouldn't matter much to a screen reader user. A bolded heading doesn't need to have the bold/strong information relayed because the "importance of being bold" is implied in the Hx heading tags themselves. But I'd like to see more tags based on usage, rather than visual formatting; Tags for titles of publications, citations, foreign terms, etc. I think those would be very beneficial to the our users because they convey not just the visual formatting but also the intention or meaning of the words. Any development in this area will need to go through the various standards committees for WCAG, PDF/UA, EPUB, etc. - - - Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | Bevi@PubCom.com - - - PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes - - - Latest blog-newsletter - Accessibility Tips -----Original Message----- From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 1:57 PM Phil, All: I recognize WCAG has been suggesting that "strong" and "emphasis" are semantic designations for many, many years. May I ask where we got this definition? I can't seem to find any grammar text that speaks of bold or italics using such terms. So, what's our authority? I'd like to know because I, myself, am constantly getting them confused in my own mind. I don't have that same problem with bold or italic, even those are type-faces I haven't seen for myself in decades. Let me hasten to underscore my strong support for semantic markup. I'm just not convinced these two terms are all that semantic. They strike me as rather arbitrary. I could equally accept a definition that said bold equals emphasis, and italics equals strong. So, please educate me. Thanks, Janina
Received on Tuesday, 7 August 2018 20:46:31 UTC