Re: [breadcrumbs] best practice

ARIA 1.1 introduced aria-current: https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/

Its use is demonstrated in the APG pattern Matt linked to.

— Michiel

> On 20 Nov 2017, at 17:08, Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org> wrote:
> 
> The issue is not about whether users have gained the ability to recognise breadcrumb navigation, but about providing a link that does nothing (i.e., creating a redundancy). 
> 
> And, what's more important is whether this causes a nuisance to AT users? Will it mean they have to listen to the name of the page twice - once from the breadcrumb, and another time from the heading? 
> 
> How will users tabbing through the page hear "current page"? 
> 
> Many thanks
> Harry
> 
> 
> 
>> On 20 November 2017 at 15:45, Fathauer, Laura <fathauer@ohio.edu> wrote:
>> My rationale is that users tabbing through the page will be able to land on that link and hear “current page” and therefore be able to know that the breadcrumb hierarchy of links ends with that link and where that page sits.
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>> If your usability tests were around 15  years ago, I would posit that in general people may have advanced in with their ability to recognize breadcrumb navigation.
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>> Laura
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>> From: harry.loots@googlemail.com [mailto:harry.loots@googlemail.com] On Behalf Of Harry Loots
>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 2:36 AM
>> To: Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
>> Cc: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>; W3C WAI ig <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>; Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
>> 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [breadcrumbs] best practice
>>  
>> 
>> In my experience making the current active page a linked item in the breadcrumbs lead to potential confusion for all users. I observed users (in usability tests), clicking on this link - expecting to go to a previous page - and then ending on the same page (probably around early 2000s), and have ever since avoided 1) placing the current page name as a member of the breadcrumb, and 2) would most definitely not make it an active link. 
>> 
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>> Thanks all for the comments - it appears as if we could do with some research in this area... 
>> 
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>> Kindest regards
>> 
>> Harry
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>> On 18 November 2017 at 01:36, Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Why is it a best practice to make the current page an active link to the same page - isn't an active visible link distracting or at least confusing to users with cognitive disabilities? 
>>         snip of code from pattern:
>>         . . . 
>>         <li>
>>         <a href="./index.html" aria-current="page">
>>           Breadcrumb Example
>>         </a>
>> ___________
>> Regards,
>> Phill Jenkins
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From:        Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
>> To:        "'Patrick H. Lauke'" <redux@splintered.co.uk>, <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>> Date:        11/17/2017 03:38 PM
>> Subject:        RE: [breadcrumbs] best practice
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> BTW, we have a breadcrumb pattern in the ARIA Authoring Practicess:
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__w3c.github.io_aria-2Dpractices_-23breadcrumb&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=e5C8yTeHLQIvfyj7gYB1HCJtEUe9xxudgWp1JsAYXeo&e=
>> 
>> Matt King
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Patrick H. Lauke [mailto:redux@splintered.co.uk] 
>> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 2:09 AM
>> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: [breadcrumbs] best practice
>> 
>> On 17/11/2017 09:43, Harry Loots wrote:
>> > Hi all
>> > what is the current thinking on breadcrumbs.
>> > 
>> > I have a situation where a client want to display the page name in the 
>> > breadcrumb, then repeat the page name immediately afterwards as a 
>> > heading, which I know can be a nuisance for text-to-speech users.
>> 
>> I'd say across all the things that can be problematic/nuisance on web pages, that's a pretty minor thing. I'd further argue that even if the text is repeated, it does serve two separate purposes: in the breadcrumb navigation, to indicate this is the current page; as a heading, to, well, act as heading for the actual page's content.
>> 
>> In short, don't think it's an actual problem.
>> 
>> > Are their any firm rules on breadcrumbs, or strong views for that 
>> > matter :)
>> 
>> No firm rules, as with most things in accessibility *grin*
>> 
>> And as is often the case, it'll depend on the specific situation (i.e. 
>> how is the breadcrumb actually marked up? how long are these page titles
>> - a few words, or as long as a whole sentence - etc).
>> 
>> P
>> --
>> Patrick H. Lauke
>> 
>> www.splintered.co.uk| https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_patrickhlauke&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=J975Gwb3-Ry2o92iqMAP_PFQbnC6dMa3J0OrDfrDMig&e=https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__flickr.com_photos_redux_&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=E-yGcPVgZ3j5HsanJo6IZR8ue5Lp2jALvkQKRFh3s8Q&e=| https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__redux.deviantart.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=KGbXWvU6wp3d7m7ac7HfF4DTluIOlvt_KrAKkbX-j3E&e=
>> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>> 
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