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Re: [breadcrumbs] best practice

From: Thierry <thierry.koblentz@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 08:54:19 -0800
Message-ID: <CAL-Q1Xz5yCCiSfp4RBKLDQABz8ZsOHvi8E5o=sLc=e2vzXcR6Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org>
Cc: "Fathauer, Laura" <fathauer@ohio.edu>, Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>, Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, W3C WAI ig <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>, "Patrick H. Lauke" <redux@splintered.co.uk>
fwiw, I agree with Harry. I think we too often “reduce” a11y to
screen-readers. For the vast majority of users such link does not
convey “current
page”. It is just a clickable/actionable link that some users will click
on… Or at least wonder what it is for since - by definition - a link is
supposed to take users somewhere (to a different page or to somewhere in
that same page).

—
Thierry

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:08 AM, Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org> wrote:

> The issue is not about whether users have gained the ability to recognise
> breadcrumb navigation, but about providing a link that does nothing (i.e.,
> creating a redundancy).
>
> And, what's more important is whether this causes a nuisance to AT users?
> Will it mean they have to listen to the name of the page twice - once from
> the breadcrumb, and another time from the heading?
>
> How will users tabbing through the page hear "current page"?
>
> Many thanks
> Harry
>
>
>
> On 20 November 2017 at 15:45, Fathauer, Laura <fathauer@ohio.edu> wrote:
>
>> My rationale is that users tabbing through the page will be able to land
>> on that link and hear “current page” and therefore be able to know that the
>> breadcrumb hierarchy of links ends with that link and where that page sits.
>>
>>
>>
>> If your usability tests were around 15  years ago, I would posit that in
>> general people may have advanced in with their ability to recognize
>> breadcrumb navigation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Laura
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* harry.loots@googlemail.com [mailto:harry.loots@googlemail.com] *On
>> Behalf Of *Harry Loots
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 2:36 AM
>> *To:* Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
>> *Cc:* Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>; W3C WAI ig <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>;
>> Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [breadcrumbs] best practice
>>
>>
>>
>> In my experience making the current active page a linked item in the
>> breadcrumbs lead to potential confusion for all users. I observed users (in
>> usability tests), clicking on this link - expecting to go to a previous
>> page - and then ending on the same page (probably around early 2000s), and
>> have ever since avoided 1) placing the current page name as a member of the
>> breadcrumb, and 2) would most definitely not make it an active link.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks all for the comments - it appears as if we could do with some
>> research in this area...
>>
>>
>>
>> Kindest regards
>>
>> Harry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 18 November 2017 at 01:36, Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>
>> Why is it a best practice to make the current page an active link to the
>> same page - isn't an active visible link distracting or at least confusing
>> to users with cognitive disabilities?
>>         snip of code from pattern:
>>         . . .
>>         <li>
>>         <a href="./index.html" aria-current="page">
>>           Breadcrumb Example
>>         </a>
>> ___________
>> Regards,
>> Phill Jenkins
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From:        Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
>> To:        "'Patrick H. Lauke'" <redux@splintered.co.uk>, <
>> w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>> Date:        11/17/2017 03:38 PM
>> Subject:        RE: [breadcrumbs] best practice
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW, we have a breadcrumb pattern in the ARIA Authoring Practicess:
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__w3c.gith
>> ub.io_aria-2Dpractices_-23breadcrumb&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObT
>> bx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=E
>> aHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=e5C8yTeHLQIvfyj
>> 7gYB1HCJtEUe9xxudgWp1JsAYXeo&e=
>>
>> Matt King
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Patrick H. Lauke [mailto:redux@splintered.co.uk
>> <redux@splintered.co.uk>]
>> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 2:09 AM
>> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: [breadcrumbs] best practice
>>
>> On 17/11/2017 09:43, Harry Loots wrote:
>> > Hi all
>> > what is the current thinking on breadcrumbs.
>> >
>> > I have a situation where a client want to display the page name in the
>> > breadcrumb, then repeat the page name immediately afterwards as a
>> > heading, which I know can be a nuisance for text-to-speech users.
>>
>> I'd say across all the things that can be problematic/nuisance on web
>> pages, that's a pretty minor thing. I'd further argue that even if the text
>> is repeated, it does serve two separate purposes: in the breadcrumb
>> navigation, to indicate this is the current page; as a heading, to, well,
>> act as heading for the actual page's content.
>>
>> In short, don't think it's an actual problem.
>>
>> > Are their any firm rules on breadcrumbs, or strong views for that
>> > matter :)
>>
>> No firm rules, as with most things in accessibility *grin*
>>
>> And as is often the case, it'll depend on the specific situation (i.e.
>> how is the breadcrumb actually marked up? how long are these page titles
>> - a few words, or as long as a whole sentence - etc).
>>
>> P
>> --
>> Patrick H. Lauke
>>
>> www.splintered.co.uk| https://urldefense.proofpoint.
>> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_patrickhlauke&d=DwIFaQ&c=j
>> f_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44
>> ioVTOvk&m=EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=
>> J975Gwb3-Ry2o92iqMAP_PFQbnC6dMa3J0OrDfrDMig&e=https://
>> urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__flickr.com_phot
>> os_redux_&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf
>> 7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_
>> U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=E-yGcPVgZ3j5HsanJo6IZR8ue5Lp2jALvkQKRFh3s8Q&e=|
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__redux.de
>> viantart.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xu
>> zjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRw
>> Cs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=KGbXWvU6wp3d7m7ac7HfF4DTluIOlvt_KrAKkbX-j3E&e=
>> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Received on Monday, 20 November 2017 16:55:04 UTC

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