- From: Thierry <thierry.koblentz@gmail.com>
- Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 08:54:19 -0800
- To: Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org>
- Cc: "Fathauer, Laura" <fathauer@ohio.edu>, Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>, Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, W3C WAI ig <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>, "Patrick H. Lauke" <redux@splintered.co.uk>
- Message-ID: <CAL-Q1Xz5yCCiSfp4RBKLDQABz8ZsOHvi8E5o=sLc=e2vzXcR6Q@mail.gmail.com>
fwiw, I agree with Harry. I think we too often “reduce” a11y to screen-readers. For the vast majority of users such link does not convey “current page”. It is just a clickable/actionable link that some users will click on… Or at least wonder what it is for since - by definition - a link is supposed to take users somewhere (to a different page or to somewhere in that same page). — Thierry On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:08 AM, Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org> wrote: > The issue is not about whether users have gained the ability to recognise > breadcrumb navigation, but about providing a link that does nothing (i.e., > creating a redundancy). > > And, what's more important is whether this causes a nuisance to AT users? > Will it mean they have to listen to the name of the page twice - once from > the breadcrumb, and another time from the heading? > > How will users tabbing through the page hear "current page"? > > Many thanks > Harry > > > > On 20 November 2017 at 15:45, Fathauer, Laura <fathauer@ohio.edu> wrote: > >> My rationale is that users tabbing through the page will be able to land >> on that link and hear “current page” and therefore be able to know that the >> breadcrumb hierarchy of links ends with that link and where that page sits. >> >> >> >> If your usability tests were around 15 years ago, I would posit that in >> general people may have advanced in with their ability to recognize >> breadcrumb navigation. >> >> >> >> Laura >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* harry.loots@googlemail.com [mailto:harry.loots@googlemail.com] *On >> Behalf Of *Harry Loots >> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 2:36 AM >> *To:* Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com> >> *Cc:* Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>; W3C WAI ig <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>; >> Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [breadcrumbs] best practice >> >> >> >> In my experience making the current active page a linked item in the >> breadcrumbs lead to potential confusion for all users. I observed users (in >> usability tests), clicking on this link - expecting to go to a previous >> page - and then ending on the same page (probably around early 2000s), and >> have ever since avoided 1) placing the current page name as a member of the >> breadcrumb, and 2) would most definitely not make it an active link. >> >> >> >> Thanks all for the comments - it appears as if we could do with some >> research in this area... >> >> >> >> Kindest regards >> >> Harry >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 18 November 2017 at 01:36, Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com> wrote: >> >> Why is it a best practice to make the current page an active link to the >> same page - isn't an active visible link distracting or at least confusing >> to users with cognitive disabilities? >> snip of code from pattern: >> . . . >> <li> >> <a href="./index.html" aria-current="page"> >> Breadcrumb Example >> </a> >> ___________ >> Regards, >> Phill Jenkins >> >> >> >> >> From: Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com> >> To: "'Patrick H. Lauke'" <redux@splintered.co.uk>, < >> w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> >> Date: 11/17/2017 03:38 PM >> Subject: RE: [breadcrumbs] best practice >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> >> BTW, we have a breadcrumb pattern in the ARIA Authoring Practicess: >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__w3c.gith >> ub.io_aria-2Dpractices_-23breadcrumb&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObT >> bx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=E >> aHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=e5C8yTeHLQIvfyj >> 7gYB1HCJtEUe9xxudgWp1JsAYXeo&e= >> >> Matt King >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Patrick H. Lauke [mailto:redux@splintered.co.uk >> <redux@splintered.co.uk>] >> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 2:09 AM >> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org >> Subject: Re: [breadcrumbs] best practice >> >> On 17/11/2017 09:43, Harry Loots wrote: >> > Hi all >> > what is the current thinking on breadcrumbs. >> > >> > I have a situation where a client want to display the page name in the >> > breadcrumb, then repeat the page name immediately afterwards as a >> > heading, which I know can be a nuisance for text-to-speech users. >> >> I'd say across all the things that can be problematic/nuisance on web >> pages, that's a pretty minor thing. I'd further argue that even if the text >> is repeated, it does serve two separate purposes: in the breadcrumb >> navigation, to indicate this is the current page; as a heading, to, well, >> act as heading for the actual page's content. >> >> In short, don't think it's an actual problem. >> >> > Are their any firm rules on breadcrumbs, or strong views for that >> > matter :) >> >> No firm rules, as with most things in accessibility *grin* >> >> And as is often the case, it'll depend on the specific situation (i.e. >> how is the breadcrumb actually marked up? how long are these page titles >> - a few words, or as long as a whole sentence - etc). >> >> P >> -- >> Patrick H. Lauke >> >> www.splintered.co.uk| https://urldefense.proofpoint. >> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_patrickhlauke&d=DwIFaQ&c=j >> f_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44 >> ioVTOvk&m=EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s= >> J975Gwb3-Ry2o92iqMAP_PFQbnC6dMa3J0OrDfrDMig&e=https:// >> urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__flickr.com_phot >> os_redux_&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf >> 7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_ >> U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=E-yGcPVgZ3j5HsanJo6IZR8ue5Lp2jALvkQKRFh3s8Q&e=| >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__redux.de >> viantart.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xu >> zjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRw >> Cs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=KGbXWvU6wp3d7m7ac7HfF4DTluIOlvt_KrAKkbX-j3E&e= >> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >
Received on Monday, 20 November 2017 16:55:04 UTC