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Re: [breadcrumbs] best practice

From: Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 17:08:32 +0100
Message-ID: <CA++-QFca472j+wwCBXoOJbViqMenks+T1LrSRARfQ9fphADbJw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Fathauer, Laura" <fathauer@ohio.edu>
Cc: Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>, Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>, W3C WAI ig <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>, "Patrick H. Lauke" <redux@splintered.co.uk>
The issue is not about whether users have gained the ability to recognise
breadcrumb navigation, but about providing a link that does nothing (i.e.,
creating a redundancy).

And, what's more important is whether this causes a nuisance to AT users?
Will it mean they have to listen to the name of the page twice - once from
the breadcrumb, and another time from the heading?

How will users tabbing through the page hear "current page"?

Many thanks
Harry



On 20 November 2017 at 15:45, Fathauer, Laura <fathauer@ohio.edu> wrote:

> My rationale is that users tabbing through the page will be able to land
> on that link and hear “current page” and therefore be able to know that the
> breadcrumb hierarchy of links ends with that link and where that page sits.
>
>
>
> If your usability tests were around 15  years ago, I would posit that in
> general people may have advanced in with their ability to recognize
> breadcrumb navigation.
>
>
>
> Laura
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* harry.loots@googlemail.com [mailto:harry.loots@googlemail.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Harry Loots
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 2:36 AM
> *To:* Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
> *Cc:* Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>; W3C WAI ig <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>;
> Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [breadcrumbs] best practice
>
>
>
> In my experience making the current active page a linked item in the
> breadcrumbs lead to potential confusion for all users. I observed users (in
> usability tests), clicking on this link - expecting to go to a previous
> page - and then ending on the same page (probably around early 2000s), and
> have ever since avoided 1) placing the current page name as a member of the
> breadcrumb, and 2) would most definitely not make it an active link.
>
>
>
> Thanks all for the comments - it appears as if we could do with some
> research in this area...
>
>
>
> Kindest regards
>
> Harry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 18 November 2017 at 01:36, Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> Why is it a best practice to make the current page an active link to the
> same page - isn't an active visible link distracting or at least confusing
> to users with cognitive disabilities?
>         snip of code from pattern:
>         . . .
>         <li>
>         <a href="./index.html" aria-current="page">
>           Breadcrumb Example
>         </a>
> ___________
> Regards,
> Phill Jenkins
>
>
>
>
> From:        Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
> To:        "'Patrick H. Lauke'" <redux@splintered.co.uk>, <
> w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Date:        11/17/2017 03:38 PM
> Subject:        RE: [breadcrumbs] best practice
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> BTW, we have a breadcrumb pattern in the ARIA Authoring Practicess:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__w3c.
> github.io_aria-2Dpractices_-23breadcrumb&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_
> iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=
> EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=
> e5C8yTeHLQIvfyj7gYB1HCJtEUe9xxudgWp1JsAYXeo&e=
>
> Matt King
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick H. Lauke [mailto:redux@splintered.co.uk
> <redux@splintered.co.uk>]
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 2:09 AM
> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: Re: [breadcrumbs] best practice
>
> On 17/11/2017 09:43, Harry Loots wrote:
> > Hi all
> > what is the current thinking on breadcrumbs.
> >
> > I have a situation where a client want to display the page name in the
> > breadcrumb, then repeat the page name immediately afterwards as a
> > heading, which I know can be a nuisance for text-to-speech users.
>
> I'd say across all the things that can be problematic/nuisance on web
> pages, that's a pretty minor thing. I'd further argue that even if the text
> is repeated, it does serve two separate purposes: in the breadcrumb
> navigation, to indicate this is the current page; as a heading, to, well,
> act as heading for the actual page's content.
>
> In short, don't think it's an actual problem.
>
> > Are their any firm rules on breadcrumbs, or strong views for that
> > matter :)
>
> No firm rules, as with most things in accessibility *grin*
>
> And as is often the case, it'll depend on the specific situation (i.e.
> how is the breadcrumb actually marked up? how long are these page titles
> - a few words, or as long as a whole sentence - etc).
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> www.splintered.co.uk| https://urldefense.proofpoint.
> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_patrickhlauke&d=DwIFaQ&c=
> jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=
> EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=J975Gwb3-Ry2o92iqMAP_
> PFQbnC6dMa3J0OrDfrDMig&e=https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/
> v2/url?u=http-3A__flickr.com_photos_redux_&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_
> iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=
> EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=E-
> yGcPVgZ3j5HsanJo6IZR8ue5Lp2jALvkQKRFh3s8Q&e=|
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__redux.
> deviantart.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=
> aWgRqmoh0Xuzjf7UaXq44Tf6K41u809DPE44ioVTOvk&m=EaHSkTPXnr7dz7IhuHLdmQGRwCs_
> U25W6xuCtcpx4xw&s=KGbXWvU6wp3d7m7ac7HfF4DTluIOlvt_KrAKkbX-j3E&e=
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Monday, 20 November 2017 16:09:00 UTC

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