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RE: recommended attribute use in hierarchies?

From: Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 02:05:17 +0000
To: Rich Morin <rdm@cfcl.com>, WAI Interest Group <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <72f435df7911449c8781c2b47fb0530c@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com>
Rich,

Each screen reader will present the information obtained from the Accessibility API slightly different. Orca I have had very little dealings with and isn't a main stream screen reader like Jaws, NVDA, Voice-Over. So I am not sure how it handles web browsing.

When you are referring to attributes, am I correct in thinking you want the end-user to know the type of bullet, if the text is bolded, what colours are being used, etc? Rather then the type of element? I ask this as the Orca example is referring to the type of attribute being used for a list. 

The question I would ask, does a screen reader really need to know the type of bullet?

I can see the situation where different font attributes is important, colour, size and simular attributes are necessary for the screen reader to know about. In this situation, then it should be a command within the screen reader to provide the extra information. Generally the screen reader wouldn't want to hear the extra attribute information as it would distract them from understanding the content. 

Editing, creating  or proof reading are the situations where extra attribute information is important. The screen readers do not pick up all the attributes available. 

If I am not on the same page, please let me know.



 
Sean Murphy
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Morin [mailto:rdm@cfcl.com] 
Sent: Monday, 6 February 2017 12:14 PM
To: WAI Interest Group <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Re: recommended attribute use in hierarchies?

> On Feb 5, 2017, at 15:18, Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com> wrote:
> 
> Q: If I'm just generating static headings and lists, what attributes should
>   I be including (and why)?
> 
> Ans: When using elements for structure then using the standard heading, unordered and ordered lists, etc should be used. As the screen reader will by default understand these elements and permit the screen reader user to navigate between them using builtin shortcut keys. In fact, it is best practise to use standard browser elements where possible.

That's certainly the theory.  However, this example page indicates that practice may vary:

File Directory Treeview Example Using Computed Properties
https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices-1.1/examples/treeview/treeview-1/treeview-1a.html

> The ARIA 1.0 Spectification [sic] for these properties states the browser
> can compute these values, but is not required to.

More to the point, experimentation on assorted screen readers (eg, NVDA, Orca, VoiceOver)
left us with the impression that getting useful level information for headings and list items
is far from guaranteed.

For example, when my colleague navigated through a nested list in Orca, she was told that she
was on a "bullet", "white bullet", etc.  Not real useful...  However, I don't know whether
declared properties would have worked any better.  Clues?

> I hope this helps.

It all helps; thanks!

-r

 -- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm           Rich Morin           rdm@cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume    San Bruno, CA, USA   +1 650-873-7841

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Received on Monday, 6 February 2017 02:05:52 UTC

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