RE: WCAG Next Possible Models

I agree the one thing that has been a problem with both wheelchair ramps 
and lifts on buses as well as electronic access is that when one or more 
players become the 800lb gorrila on the bus (couldn't resist) that other 
players in the field become casualties and users who for whatever reason 
have chosen to use that techonology are left by the wayside.

in a "closed" enviorenment standards are what meets the needs of the users 
(and it must meet all of the needs of the users in that group) it becomes 
a defacto standard for xyz group/company etc.

but if is open to the general public then that is where the stuff written 
in WAI is of extreme importance and needs to be min and max if you will 
but also must conform to the laws of the area in which it is used.

I have over the years seen more platform specific issues than should ever 
exist.  if a ford could only get gas at a ford specific gas station we 
would not have the widespread use of the auto I suspect (for better or 
worse) so if one intends and I suspect we all do to be as inclusive as 
humanly possible we must make sure that we write software that is as 
inclusive as possible with the minimum being the WAI (whatever version is 
in effect)

you and I have discussed this for years and we both agree with the basic 
form.  but it seems there is always someone wanting to escape the corral 
that is the limit of full access.

I have been less involved of late for personal reasons but do keep up to 
date and try to at least read everything although sometimes I feel like I 
am pushing the rock up the hill and everytime I think it is there it rolls 
back down.

take care
Bob


On Mon, 11 Apr 2016, John Foliot wrote:

> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:44:23 -0500
> From: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
> To: accessys@smart.net,
>     "'Macintosh, Kristy (OMAFRA)'" <Kristy.Macintosh@ontario.ca>
> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: WCAG Next Possible Models
> 
> Hi Bob,
>
> While I agree that platform specific guidance can introduce some unforeseen issues, I also am thinking that it would be slightly more high-level than that.
>
> For example in your wheelchair ramp example, we can specify minimum and maximum angles of ascent/decent for the ramp, as well as min and max widths when a wheelchair ramp is being contemplated for a building, but those same numbers (requirements) may change when the ramp is to a van or other automotive conveyance (or might require a lift instead, as the ramp may not always be a viable solution). I don't see an actual problem there; the guidance would be conditional on other environmental factors, with the net goal of successfully accomplishing the task. (So for example, touch interfaces already have some issues which we cannot change. We cannot simply say "Don't use touch interfaces").
>
> I will also suggest that the validity of any WCAG Success Criteria cannot and should not be hinged on the cost of any particular piece of technology: I support FOSS as a matter of principle, but cannot ignore viable and working commercial products as well, simply because they are commercial in nature. Equally, we cannot ignore commercial solutions simply because there may not exist an Open Source equivalent in the marketplace today.
>
> JF
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: accessys@smart.net [mailto:accessys@smart.net]
>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 9:30 AM
>> To: Macintosh, Kristy (OMAFRA) <Kristy.Macintosh@ontario.ca>
>> Cc: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>> Subject: RE: WCAG Next Possible Models
>>
>>
>> the USA and I suspect many other places actually prohibit platform specific
>> technology UNLESS the entire platform and technology are provided free.
>>
>> fortunately or unfortunately there are many different platforms and
>> technologies that meet the needs of various persons with disabilities needs
>> and/or preferences.
>>
>> if someone has an entire working system in say windows 8 will your system that
>> requires a Mac force them to buy all new equiipment and learn all new
>> prochedures for using this
>>
>> and of course folks using BsD or Linux or "X" well they are not even
>> considered...??
>>
>> would be similar to having a wheelchair ramp that could only be used by a single
>> brand of wheelchairs and others would not fit.,
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016, Macintosh, Kristy (OMAFRA) wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:13:34 +0000
>>> From: "Macintosh, Kristy (OMAFRA)" <Kristy.Macintosh@ontario.ca>
>>> To: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>,
>>>     "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>>> Subject: RE: WCAG Next Possible Models
>>> Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:14:07 +0000
>>> Resent-From: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am in support of option: WCAG 2.0 plus extensions by technology or
>> platform.
>>>
>>> I work for the Government of Ontario and as of this past January (2016) we are
>> required by the AODA regulation
>> (https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/110191#BK15) to make all our public
>> facing web content comply to WCAG 2.0 Level AA guidelines. A significant
>> change to the guidelines could have a huge impact on the work we have already
>> done.
>>>
>>> A part of our online content is online learning courses (eLearning) and they
>> must also be complaint to WCAG Level AA which is not a straight forward
>> process. These guidelines apply very different to eLearning than to a website or
>> electronic document. I emailed out to the group list a few weeks ago looking for
>> anyone else that was trying to work through defining how WCAG applies to
>> actual eLearning courses and unfortunately there is not a lot of information out
>> there so we are working through developing this. I think that the guidelines
>> would best be served if they are kept mostly as is but had an eLearning extension
>> that developers of online learning can use to ensure that they are meeting
>> guidelines for online learning courses.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Kristy
>>>
>>> From: John Foliot [mailto:john.foliot@deque.com]
>>> Sent: April-08-16 12:36 PM
>>> To: WCAG; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org; 'WebAIM Discussion List'
>>> Subject: WCAG Next Possible Models
>>>
>>> [Please share freely]
>>> Colleagues,
>>> The WCAG Working Group is looking for public feedback and comment on the
>> creation of extensions to WCAG 2.0. Your input is being solicited today and
>> comments should be forwarded to the WAI IG Mailing list with the subject line:
>> WCAG Next Possible Models. Background information and more details on how
>> to comment follow.
>>> BACKGROUND
>>> Earlier in March, a discussion started off at the W3C on what WCAG.next
>> should look like. That initial discussion has actually forked into two related
>> discussion, the differentiator being a question of time.
>>> The first discussion revolves around a big-picture major revision of WCAG. This
>> discussion is looking at what the next generation of accessibility guidance should
>> look like, and it incorporates thoughts around integrating UAAG 2.0 and ATAG
>> 2.0 into a more integrated approach. This is an exciting idea, and it is envisioned
>> that this will be a 3 to 5 year undertaking (perhaps longer).
>>> Slightly more pressing however is the fact that there are a number of Task
>> Forces at the W3C that are looking at building ‘extensions’ to WCAG 2.0,
>> to provide additional guidance (including possible new Success Criteria,
>> Understanding and Techniques documents) around topics such as Mobile
>> accessibility, Low Vision concerns, and addressing the needs of those with
>> Cognitive disabilities. Some of this effort is becoming fairly mature, and so the
>> second discussion is around what are we going to do with all of this guidance
>> and content. The content coming from the Task Forces is nearing completion,
>> and it is badly needed today. I think most can agree that we cannot wait another
>> 3 to 5 years for a major “refresh” of WCAG 2.0., and the Working Group
>> has been chartered to create extensions to WCAG 2.0 in this interim period.
>>> The WCAG Working Group are now looking at what then, exactly, will WCAG
>> 2.0 extensions look like?
>>> SEEKING PUBLIC COMMENTS
>>> So far, discussion has surface 4 potential “strawman”
>>> possibilities, which can be found at:
>>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_Next_Possible_Models
>>> We have not ruled out other possible models however, and so there still exists
>> the possibility of yet a 5th , 6th , or more possible strawman proposal(s). Critical
>> to the final decision however is that we also ensure broad public comment and
>> input in an effort to ensure we have the best possible model moving forward.
>>> Which is the purpose of this email.
>>> If you use, or are impacted by the use of, WCAG 2.0 we want to hear your
>> thoughts. The goal is to gather as much feedback as possible over the next 2 or
>> 3 weeks so that an informed decision can be made. This is your opportunity to
>> contribute to that discussion. Please note that at this time nothing is committed
>> one way or the other, and there exists the possibility that unanimity may never
>> surface, but every effort is being made to ensure that stakeholders have an
>> opportunity to speak up.
>>> If you would like to comment on this activity, please review the possible
>> models already brought forward at
>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_Next_Possible_Models.
>>>
>>> ·        What are the Pros? The Cons?
>>>
>>> ·        Do you have any other comments to add?
>>>
>>> ·        Do you have a preference?
>>>
>>> ·        Do you have another potential model not yet contemplated?
>>> All of these questions are in scope, and we’re excited to hear
>> everyone’s thoughts on this topic.
>>> HOW TO COMMENT:
>>> To ensure we can get as broad a community feedback as possible, we are
>>> using the WAI IG Mailing list at
>>> w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<http://mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> with the Subject
>>> Line: WCAG Next Possible Models. This public mailing list is open to
>>> all to participate in, once you have signed up to be a member of that
>>> list. Information on how to join the WAI-IG mailing list can be found
>>> at https://www.w3.org/WAI/IG/#mailinglist
>>> Please note that we are also currently looking for a possible means of
>> collecting anonymous feedback as well, and if/when we have that ability we will
>> further advise.
>>> Our goal is to gather this feedback over the next 2 or 3 weeks, and present out
>> findings to the Working Group with a proposed recommendation on how to
>> move forward. While comments and feedback to the WCAG Working Group are
>> always welcome, we hope to wrap this up fairly quickly, and so if you wish to
>> comment you are urged to do so soon.
>>> This is an unique opportunity to gather community feedback, and we look
>> forward to hearing your thoughts.
>>> JF
>>> ​--
>>> John Foliot
>>> Principal Accessibility Strategist
>>> Austin, TX
>>>
>>> Deque Systems Inc.
>>> 2121 Cooperative Way, Suite 210,
>>> Herndon, VA 20171-5344
>>> Office: 703-225-0380
>>> john.foliot@deque.com<mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>
>>>
>>> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>>>
>>>
>
>
>