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Re: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?

From: Gregg Vanderheiden <gregg@raisingthefloor.org>
Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 11:49:08 -0500
Cc: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>, Wayne Dick <waynedick@knowbility.org>, IG - WAI Interest Group List list <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-Id: <678A1E37-227A-4790-B14A-E99E743C809C@raisingthefloor.org>
To: Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com>
Things are only ‘common failures’  if they are common and are always a failure in all conditions. 

If you are meaning 

Failure 
Increasing font size (text zoom) or changing page width causes text to overlap images such that the contrast ratio falls below 4.5:1  

   (or something like that )   I think it could be a failure.    You can write it up and submit it and the working group could review it and see if they see something I don’t.    Write it up carefully so that it is clear and always a failure. 

gregg

----------------------------------
Gregg Vanderheiden
gregg@raisingthefloor.org




> On May 26, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com> wrote:
> 
> Should this be documented as a failure then?
> Sailesh
> 
> 
> On 5/26/15, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
>>> But consider a case where the default focus indicator is passable. Now if
>>> the content author styles the background / foreground colors in a manner
>>> that introduces poor contrast and as a result, the focus indicator is no
>>> longer clear. It is not the browser's fault but a CSS / author-introduced
>>> issue. So is it alright to fail poor contrast on the focus indicator under
>>> SC 2.4.7?
>> 
>> Yes definitely in my opinion.
>> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
>> --
>> Jonathan Avila
>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>> SSB BART Group
>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
>> 
>> 703-637-8957 (o)
>> Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sailesh Panchang [mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 9:44 AM
>> To: Gregg Vanderheiden
>> Cc: Jonathan Avila; Wayne Dick; IG - WAI Interest Group List list
>> Subject: Re: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?
>> 
>> Jonathan / Greg,
>> Sorry you are mis-reading my first post:
>> I said: "So I do not think disabling CSS  to do away with poor contrast on
>> the focus indicator will make it pass 2.4.7"
>> I raised this question "Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7
>> failure?   " with a hope of hearing from Wayne based on his remarks:
>> "New Fail Case 1 restores 1194.22(d) of the current 508, which has been lost
>> in the 508 Refresh. The author's visual presentation must be removable".
>> I understand para (d)  refers to use of user defined style sheets, yet in
>> his test case, I do see a statement that says "2. From the Firefox menu take
>> View > Page Style > No Style".
>> My words "disabling CSS" is used in the above context. Maybe my email was
>> unclear to you because I started another thread after reading Wayne's post.
>> Coming back to my question:
>> Yes, knowledgeable content authors may use CSS to enhance browser's default
>> focus indicator if it is weak. That's good.
>> But consider a case where the default focus indicator is passable. Now if
>> the content author styles the background / foreground colors in a manner
>> that introduces poor contrast and as a result, the focus indicator is no
>> longer clear. It is not the browser's fault but a CSS / author-introduced
>> issue. So is it alright to fail poor contrast on the focus indicator under
>> SC 2.4.7?
>> Thanks,
>> Sailesh
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/25/15, Gregg Vanderheiden <gregg@raisingthefloor.org> wrote:
>>> Ah
>>> OK
>>> 
>>> (Disabling CSS is not a good method for creating a visible indicator at
>>> any
>>> rate.  The default focus indicator is pretty faint). 	
>>> 
>>> Thanks Jonathan - agree
>>> 
>>> gregg
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------
>>> Gregg Vanderheiden
>>> gregg@raisingthefloor.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On May 25, 2015, at 7:19 PM, Jonathan Avila
>>>> <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Ø  What did you have in mind with disabling CSS for a more visible
>>>> focus indicator?
>>>> 
>>>> Gregg, Sailesh was the one who mentioned it – but my comment was
>>>> meant to indicate that I would be opposed to requiring the user to
>>>> disable CSS in order to make a site WCAG conformant.  That is some
>>>> people might try to make claims of conformance for contrast by saying
>>>> it can be met when you turn off CSS.
>>>> 
>>>> Jonathan
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Jonathan Avila
>>>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>>>> SSB BART Group
>>>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 703-637-8957 (o)
>>>> Follow us: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/#%21/ssbbartgroup> |
>>>> Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/SSBBARTGroup> | LinkedIn
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>>>> 
>>>> From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2015 8:21 PM
>>>> To: Jonathan Avila
>>>> Cc: Sailesh Panchang; Wayne Dick; IG - WAI Interest Group List list
>>>> Subject: Re: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?
>>>> 
>>>> Disabling CSS?
>>>> 
>>>> First time I’ve heard of disabling CSS as a way to create a better focus
>>>> indicator.   The default indicator is usually almost invisible.  I have
>>>> only heard of using CSS to INCREASE the visibility of the focus cursor.
>>>> Unfortunately it isn’t that easy to do unless people are more
>>>> technically adept.
>>>> 
>>>> What did you have in mind with disabling CSS for a more visible focus
>>>> indicator?
>>>> 
>>>> gregg
>>>> 
>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>> Gregg Vanderheiden
>>>> gregg@raisingthefloor.org <mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On May 24, 2015, at 6:09 PM, Jonathan Avila
>>>> <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> So I do not think disabling CSS  to do away with poor contrast on the
>>>> focus indicator will make it pass 2.4.7.
>>>> 
>>>> I hope we don't go down the path of saying that disabling CSS can
>>>> help you allow you to meet success criteria.  While in theory this
>>>> could work it relegates  people with low vision to use an interface
>>>> that is visually not equal to that presented to people without
>>>> disabilities all in the name of not wanting to use sufficient contrast.
>>>> 
>>>> Jonathan
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Jonathan Avila
>>>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>>>> SSB BART Group
>>>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>>>> 
>>>> 703-637-8957 (o)
>>>> Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Sailesh Panchang [mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com
>>>> <mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com>]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2015 7:49 AM
>>>> To: Wayne Dick
>>>> Cc: WAI Interest Group
>>>> Subject: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Wayne,
>>>> SC 1.4.3 (AA)  applies to text and images of text and not to the
>>>> visual focus indicator for links / other UI controls.
>>>> Yet, poor contrast of the visual focus indicator too may make the
>>>> focus indicator not "visible" or clearly discernible and cause a
>>>> failure of SC
>>>> 2.4.7 in my opinion.
>>>> Do you agree / perceive poor contrast of the focus indicator as an SC
>>>> 2.4.7 failure?
>>>> By the way, disabling CSS may make the focus indicator visible for
>>>> reasons not impacted by poor contrast too, yet SC 2.4.7 is on the
>>>> books  at Level AA.
>>>> So I do not think disabling CSS  to do away with poor contrast on the
>>>> focus indicator will make it pass 2.4.7.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Sailesh Panchang
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
Received on Tuesday, 26 May 2015 16:49:40 UTC

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