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Re: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?

From: Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com>
Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 11:43:49 -0400
Message-ID: <CAJi9Cqrei0sHM1f7a4RNP3PZrRTdnX_fLf_tf8fg6TPEkAfyPg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
Cc: Gregg Vanderheiden <gregg@raisingthefloor.org>, Wayne Dick <waynedick@knowbility.org>, IG - WAI Interest Group List list <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Should this be documented as a failure then?
Sailesh


On 5/26/15, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
>> But consider a case where the default focus indicator is passable. Now if
>> the content author styles the background / foreground colors in a manner
>> that introduces poor contrast and as a result, the focus indicator is no
>> longer clear. It is not the browser's fault but a CSS / author-introduced
>> issue. So is it alright to fail poor contrast on the focus indicator under
>> SC 2.4.7?
>
> Yes definitely in my opinion.
>
> Jonathan
>
> --
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
>
> 703-637-8957 (o)
> Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sailesh Panchang [mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 9:44 AM
> To: Gregg Vanderheiden
> Cc: Jonathan Avila; Wayne Dick; IG - WAI Interest Group List list
> Subject: Re: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?
>
> Jonathan / Greg,
> Sorry you are mis-reading my first post:
> I said: "So I do not think disabling CSS  to do away with poor contrast on
> the focus indicator will make it pass 2.4.7"
> I raised this question "Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7
> failure?   " with a hope of hearing from Wayne based on his remarks:
> "New Fail Case 1 restores 1194.22(d) of the current 508, which has been lost
> in the 508 Refresh. The author's visual presentation must be removable".
> I understand para (d)  refers to use of user defined style sheets, yet in
> his test case, I do see a statement that says "2. From the Firefox menu take
> View > Page Style > No Style".
> My words "disabling CSS" is used in the above context. Maybe my email was
> unclear to you because I started another thread after reading Wayne's post.
> Coming back to my question:
> Yes, knowledgeable content authors may use CSS to enhance browser's default
> focus indicator if it is weak. That's good.
> But consider a case where the default focus indicator is passable. Now if
> the content author styles the background / foreground colors in a manner
> that introduces poor contrast and as a result, the focus indicator is no
> longer clear. It is not the browser's fault but a CSS / author-introduced
> issue. So is it alright to fail poor contrast on the focus indicator under
> SC 2.4.7?
> Thanks,
> Sailesh
>
>
> On 5/25/15, Gregg Vanderheiden <gregg@raisingthefloor.org> wrote:
>> Ah
>> OK
>>
>> (Disabling CSS is not a good method for creating a visible indicator at
>> any
>> rate.  The default focus indicator is pretty faint). 	
>>
>> Thanks Jonathan - agree
>>
>> gregg
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> Gregg Vanderheiden
>> gregg@raisingthefloor.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 25, 2015, at 7:19 PM, Jonathan Avila
>>> <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ø  What did you have in mind with disabling CSS for a more visible
>>> focus indicator?
>>>
>>> Gregg, Sailesh was the one who mentioned it – but my comment was
>>> meant to indicate that I would be opposed to requiring the user to
>>> disable CSS in order to make a site WCAG conformant.  That is some
>>> people might try to make claims of conformance for contrast by saying
>>> it can be met when you turn off CSS.
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonathan Avila
>>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>>> SSB BART Group
>>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>>>
>>> 703-637-8957 (o)
>>> Follow us: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/#%21/ssbbartgroup> |
>>> Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/SSBBARTGroup> | LinkedIn
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>>>
>>> From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org]
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2015 8:21 PM
>>> To: Jonathan Avila
>>> Cc: Sailesh Panchang; Wayne Dick; IG - WAI Interest Group List list
>>> Subject: Re: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?
>>>
>>> Disabling CSS?
>>>
>>> First time I’ve heard of disabling CSS as a way to create a better focus
>>> indicator.   The default indicator is usually almost invisible.  I have
>>> only heard of using CSS to INCREASE the visibility of the focus cursor.
>>> Unfortunately it isn’t that easy to do unless people are more
>>> technically adept.
>>>
>>> What did you have in mind with disabling CSS for a more visible focus
>>> indicator?
>>>
>>> gregg
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------
>>> Gregg Vanderheiden
>>> gregg@raisingthefloor.org <mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 24, 2015, at 6:09 PM, Jonathan Avila
>>> <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> So I do not think disabling CSS  to do away with poor contrast on the
>>> focus indicator will make it pass 2.4.7.
>>>
>>> I hope we don't go down the path of saying that disabling CSS can
>>> help you allow you to meet success criteria.  While in theory this
>>> could work it relegates  people with low vision to use an interface
>>> that is visually not equal to that presented to people without
>>> disabilities all in the name of not wanting to use sufficient contrast.
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonathan Avila
>>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>>> SSB BART Group
>>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>>>
>>> 703-637-8957 (o)
>>> Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Sailesh Panchang [mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com
>>> <mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com>]
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2015 7:49 AM
>>> To: Wayne Dick
>>> Cc: WAI Interest Group
>>> Subject: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?
>>>
>>> Hello Wayne,
>>> SC 1.4.3 (AA)  applies to text and images of text and not to the
>>> visual focus indicator for links / other UI controls.
>>> Yet, poor contrast of the visual focus indicator too may make the
>>> focus indicator not "visible" or clearly discernible and cause a
>>> failure of SC
>>> 2.4.7 in my opinion.
>>> Do you agree / perceive poor contrast of the focus indicator as an SC
>>> 2.4.7 failure?
>>> By the way, disabling CSS may make the focus indicator visible for
>>> reasons not impacted by poor contrast too, yet SC 2.4.7 is on the
>>> books  at Level AA.
>>> So I do not think disabling CSS  to do away with poor contrast on the
>>> focus indicator will make it pass 2.4.7.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sailesh Panchang
>>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Tuesday, 26 May 2015 15:44:17 UTC

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