W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > April to June 2015

RE: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?

From: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 13:46:52 +0000
To: Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com>, Gregg Vanderheiden <gregg@raisingthefloor.org>
CC: Wayne Dick <waynedick@knowbility.org>, IG - WAI Interest Group List list <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <BN1PR03MB268104142CD37E7898651DA9BCC0@BN1PR03MB268.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
> But consider a case where the default focus indicator is passable. Now if the content author styles the background / foreground colors in a manner that introduces poor contrast and as a result, the focus indicator is no longer clear. It is not the browser's fault but a CSS / author-introduced issue. So is it alright to fail poor contrast on the focus indicator under SC 2.4.7?

Yes definitely in my opinion.

Jonathan

-- 
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group 
jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com

703-637-8957 (o) 
Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter


-----Original Message-----
From: Sailesh Panchang [mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 9:44 AM
To: Gregg Vanderheiden
Cc: Jonathan Avila; Wayne Dick; IG - WAI Interest Group List list
Subject: Re: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?

Jonathan / Greg,
Sorry you are mis-reading my first post:
I said: "So I do not think disabling CSS  to do away with poor contrast on the focus indicator will make it pass 2.4.7"
I raised this question "Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?   " with a hope of hearing from Wayne based on his remarks:
"New Fail Case 1 restores 1194.22(d) of the current 508, which has been lost in the 508 Refresh. The author's visual presentation must be removable".
I understand para (d)  refers to use of user defined style sheets, yet in his test case, I do see a statement that says "2. From the Firefox menu take View > Page Style > No Style".
My words "disabling CSS" is used in the above context. Maybe my email was unclear to you because I started another thread after reading Wayne's post.
Coming back to my question:
Yes, knowledgeable content authors may use CSS to enhance browser's default focus indicator if it is weak. That's good.
But consider a case where the default focus indicator is passable. Now if the content author styles the background / foreground colors in a manner that introduces poor contrast and as a result, the focus indicator is no longer clear. It is not the browser's fault but a CSS / author-introduced issue. So is it alright to fail poor contrast on the focus indicator under SC 2.4.7?
Thanks,
Sailesh


On 5/25/15, Gregg Vanderheiden <gregg@raisingthefloor.org> wrote:
> Ah
> OK
>
> (Disabling CSS is not a good method for creating a visible indicator at any
> rate.  The default focus indicator is pretty faint). 	
>
> Thanks Jonathan - agree
>
> gregg
>
> ----------------------------------
> Gregg Vanderheiden
> gregg@raisingthefloor.org
>
>
>
>
>> On May 25, 2015, at 7:19 PM, Jonathan Avila 
>> <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Ø  What did you have in mind with disabling CSS for a more visible 
>> focus indicator?
>>
>> Gregg, Sailesh was the one who mentioned it – but my comment was 
>> meant to indicate that I would be opposed to requiring the user to 
>> disable CSS in order to make a site WCAG conformant.  That is some 
>> people might try to make claims of conformance for contrast by saying 
>> it can be met when you turn off CSS.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Avila
>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>> SSB BART Group
>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>>
>> 703-637-8957 (o)
>> Follow us: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/#%21/ssbbartgroup> | 
>> Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/SSBBARTGroup> | LinkedIn 
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/355266?trk=tyah> | Blog 
>> <http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog> | Newsletter 
>> <http://eepurl.com/O5DP>
>>
>> From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org]
>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2015 8:21 PM
>> To: Jonathan Avila
>> Cc: Sailesh Panchang; Wayne Dick; IG - WAI Interest Group List list
>> Subject: Re: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?
>>
>> Disabling CSS?
>>
>> First time I’ve heard of disabling CSS as a way to create a better focus
>> indicator.   The default indicator is usually almost invisible.  I have
>> only heard of using CSS to INCREASE the visibility of the focus cursor.
>> Unfortunately it isn’t that easy to do unless people are more 
>> technically adept.
>>
>> What did you have in mind with disabling CSS for a more visible focus 
>> indicator?
>>
>> gregg
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> Gregg Vanderheiden
>> gregg@raisingthefloor.org <mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 24, 2015, at 6:09 PM, Jonathan Avila 
>> <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:
>>
>> So I do not think disabling CSS  to do away with poor contrast on the 
>> focus indicator will make it pass 2.4.7.
>>
>> I hope we don't go down the path of saying that disabling CSS can 
>> help you allow you to meet success criteria.  While in theory this 
>> could work it relegates  people with low vision to use an interface 
>> that is visually not equal to that presented to people without 
>> disabilities all in the name of not wanting to use sufficient contrast.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Avila
>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>> SSB BART Group
>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>>
>> 703-637-8957 (o)
>> Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sailesh Panchang [mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com
>> <mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com>]
>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2015 7:49 AM
>> To: Wayne Dick
>> Cc: WAI Interest Group
>> Subject: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?
>>
>> Hello Wayne,
>> SC 1.4.3 (AA)  applies to text and images of text and not to the 
>> visual focus indicator for links / other UI controls.
>> Yet, poor contrast of the visual focus indicator too may make the 
>> focus indicator not "visible" or clearly discernible and cause a 
>> failure of SC
>> 2.4.7 in my opinion.
>> Do you agree / perceive poor contrast of the focus indicator as an SC
>> 2.4.7 failure?
>> By the way, disabling CSS may make the focus indicator visible for 
>> reasons not impacted by poor contrast too, yet SC 2.4.7 is on the 
>> books  at Level AA.
>> So I do not think disabling CSS  to do away with poor contrast on the 
>> focus indicator will make it pass 2.4.7.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sailesh Panchang
>>
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 26 May 2015 13:47:22 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Thursday, 25 May 2017 01:54:15 UTC