Re: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?

Ah got it


gregg

----------------------------------
Gregg Vanderheiden
gregg@raisingthefloor.org




> On May 26, 2015, at 8:43 AM, Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com> wrote:
> 
> Jonathan / Greg,
> Sorry you are mis-reading my first post:
> I said: "So I do not think disabling CSS  to do away with poor
> contrast on the focus indicator will make it pass 2.4.7"
> I raised this question "Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7
> failure?   " with a hope of hearing from Wayne based on his remarks:
> "New Fail Case 1 restores 1194.22(d) of the current 508, which has
> been lost in the 508 Refresh. The author's visual presentation must be
> removable".
> I understand para (d)  refers to use of user defined style sheets, yet
> in his test case, I do see a statement that says
> "2. From the Firefox menu take View > Page Style > No Style".
> My words "disabling CSS" is used in the above context. Maybe my email
> was unclear to you because I started another thread after reading
> Wayne's post.
> Coming back to my question:
> Yes, knowledgeable content authors may use CSS to enhance browser's
> default focus indicator if it is weak. That's good.
> But consider a case where the default focus indicator is passable. Now
> if the content author styles the background / foreground colors in a
> manner that introduces poor contrast and as a result, the focus
> indicator is no longer clear. It is not the browser's fault but a CSS
> / author-introduced issue. So is it alright to fail poor contrast on
> the focus indicator under SC 2.4.7?
> Thanks,
> Sailesh
> 
> 
> On 5/25/15, Gregg Vanderheiden <gregg@raisingthefloor.org <mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org>> wrote:
>> Ah
>> OK
>> 
>> (Disabling CSS is not a good method for creating a visible indicator at any
>> rate.  The default focus indicator is pretty faint).  
>> 
>> Thanks Jonathan - agree
>> 
>> gregg
>> 
>> ----------------------------------
>> Gregg Vanderheiden
>> gregg@raisingthefloor.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 25, 2015, at 7:19 PM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ø  What did you have in mind with disabling CSS for a more visible focus
>>> indicator?
>>> 
>>> Gregg, Sailesh was the one who mentioned it – but my comment was meant to
>>> indicate that I would be opposed to requiring the user to disable CSS in
>>> order to make a site WCAG conformant.  That is some people might try to
>>> make claims of conformance for contrast by saying it can be met when you
>>> turn off CSS.
>>> 
>>> Jonathan
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jonathan Avila
>>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>>> SSB BART Group
>>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>>
>>> 
>>> 703-637-8957 (o)
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>>> 
>>> From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org <mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org>]
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2015 8:21 PM
>>> To: Jonathan Avila
>>> Cc: Sailesh Panchang; Wayne Dick; IG - WAI Interest Group List list
>>> Subject: Re: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?
>>> 
>>> Disabling CSS?
>>> 
>>> First time I’ve heard of disabling CSS as a way to create a better focus
>>> indicator.   The default indicator is usually almost invisible.  I have
>>> only heard of using CSS to INCREASE the visibility of the focus cursor.
>>> Unfortunately it isn’t that easy to do unless people are more technically
>>> adept.
>>> 
>>> What did you have in mind with disabling CSS for a more visible focus
>>> indicator?
>>> 
>>> gregg
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------
>>> Gregg Vanderheiden
>>> gregg@raisingthefloor.org <mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org> <mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org <mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 24, 2015, at 6:09 PM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>>> <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So I do not think disabling CSS  to do away with poor contrast on the
>>> focus indicator will make it pass 2.4.7.
>>> 
>>> I hope we don't go down the path of saying that disabling CSS can help you
>>> allow you to meet success criteria.  While in theory this could work it
>>> relegates  people with low vision to use an interface that is visually not
>>> equal to that presented to people without disabilities all in the name of
>>> not wanting to use sufficient contrast.
>>> 
>>> Jonathan
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jonathan Avila
>>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>>> SSB BART Group
>>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>>
>>> 
>>> 703-637-8957 (o)
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Sailesh Panchang [mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com <mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com>
>>> <mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com>]
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2015 7:49 AM
>>> To: Wayne Dick
>>> Cc: WAI Interest Group
>>> Subject: Poor contrast on focus indicator: SC 2.4.7 failure?
>>> 
>>> Hello Wayne,
>>> SC 1.4.3 (AA)  applies to text and images of text and not to the visual
>>> focus indicator for links / other UI controls.
>>> Yet, poor contrast of the visual focus indicator too may make the focus
>>> indicator not "visible" or clearly discernible and cause a failure of SC
>>> 2.4.7 in my opinion.
>>> Do you agree / perceive poor contrast of the focus indicator as an SC
>>> 2.4.7 failure?
>>> By the way, disabling CSS may make the focus indicator visible for reasons
>>> not impacted by poor contrast too, yet SC 2.4.7 is on the books  at Level
>>> AA.
>>> So I do not think disabling CSS  to do away with poor contrast on the
>>> focus indicator will make it pass 2.4.7.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sailesh Panchang