- From: John Foliot - WATS.ca <foliot@wats.ca>
- Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:35:37 -0500
- To: "W3c-Wai-Ig" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Hello All. To some of the newer list members who posted via this thread, welcome. Whew, to think this innocuous little posting from Joe "I have my opinions" Clark would start a thread this long. Like Joe, I too have opinions, and if I may, I would like to summarize and provide some things to think about. Joe started out by pointing to a Blog which supported his opinion that there is nothing wrong with opening second (third, forth and maybe even fifth windows). He cites the <sarcasm>definitive</sarcasm> http://www.cardhouse.com/... "03nov13. Special message to website creators: enough with the "outside link opens new window" junk. I can handle it, I'm a big boy now." Joe doesn't seem to like or agree with the WCAG Priority 2 Checkpoint: 10.1 "Until user agents allow users to turn off spawned windows, do not cause pop-ups or other windows to appear and do not change the current window without informing the user." He now appears to have a concurrence, and happily pointed out the posting, "...see, I'm right". As subsequent postings to the list pointed out, some people share his feelings, others (curiously, the regular users of AT) seem to concur with the W3C... I guess list members can draw their own conclusions. For those that are still considering using either the Target attribute (deprecated in XHTML, except for the Frameset DTD) and/or JavaScript Popup Windows, may I ask that you consider the following: 1) most users of Assistive Technology (and for this discussion we can focus on screen readers) prefer *Not* having to deal with multiple browser windows, *especially* un-announced ones. It's a spatial orientation thing... keeping focus on multiple windows is often problematic for blind users (not to single out any particular group). This also *may* be an issue for users with cognitive disabilities (remember the first time your "Back" button didn't work due to a Target="" link?). My poor Mum still gets befuddled when this happens, and her only thing is that she lacks experience and gets nervous around computers. This kind of experience just re-enforces her opinion... Finally, alternative user agents may not support multiple screen windows, and/or older machines may experience a performance hit if/when running multiple browser windows. 2) the debate on launching a new browser window (pros and cons) has raged ever since Netscape 3 introduced the ability to do so back in the 90's. Being an analogy kinda guy, I always liked to use this one: If you owned a brick and mortar store, and somebody came into your shop, would you lock the door and not let them leave until they purchased something, or at least heard you sales pitch and got a business card? If that happened to you, would you have a good feeling or bad feeling about the shop? Why then would you want to do so with a web site. "Locking" them in seems so counter-productive that it transcends even usability/accessibility... Folks, most (all?) browsers have a Back Button, most if not all also provide a useful "history of visited pages" function. If you want people to come to your site on multiple occasions, or in some other way feel that your site is/was of use to them, concentrate on content, not tricks. Trust me, if the site has value, they will return (via their Back Button, History list, or, if you are lucky, by their bookmark). As an added benefit, sites with *real* content, compelling and useful, will generally do better in Search Engine results... 3) related but different department: JavaScript popups. Here again issues of spatial disorientation can be a problem. But another thing has also happened. Compliments of our good friends that first sold "SpyCams" the JS Popup has become endemic on the web... so much so that both User Agents (Netscape 7.x/Mozilla, Opera, others) have built in "blockers" which prevent these types of unsolicited Popups; there are also third party tools which achieve the same functionality (the Google Bar, Popup Cop, Popup Stop, and numerous others). Not all have the same amount of "granularity" in being able to differentiate between requested popups and forced popups... some simply disallow their use. The W3C WCAG Guideline states,"...Until user agents allow users to turn off spawned windows...". Many will argue that we are there now; some UA's do allow the ability to turn them off, and users are doing so in droves. Why then would you attempt to swim upstream? Surely creative people can come up with alternative ways of providing the same type of functionality using alternative methods... (I've come up with a few myself... interested parties should enquire off list). So... if I've not convinced you on the merits of avoiding popups and new browser windows, I guess you've already made up your mind. Too bad. For while popup help windows are easy for a developer to implement, they exclude some or at least make things harder for some users. If a client *really* wants to launch outside links in external windows, I guess it's easier to do than trying to convince them why they shouldn't. Arguments that these abilities provide for a "richer" web experience however will fall on deaf ears here... Cheers! JF -- John Foliot foliot@wats.ca Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca Web Accessibility Testing and Services http://www.wats.ca 1.866.932.4878 (North America)
Received on Tuesday, 18 November 2003 15:35:39 UTC