- From: Nissen, Dan E <Dan.Nissen@UNISYS.com>
- Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:13:33 -0600
- To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
I think it is a great idea for some sites to work up some lists of other pages that provide good examples for web designers. I don't think it would be a good idea for W3C to get involved in providing a review process, a logo process or any other kind of "You are a good guy" kind of certification for a web site. First, it remains a vague science as to what is an accessible site. Usability is still an art, not a science. And Accessibility should build on usability. And, I am sure that what is accessible to one is not accessible to others due to different screen readers, Braille tablets, etc. and different browsers. I would claim that the rigor required of an international standard (and W3C is really a standards organization) is not yet known for accessibility. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Jukka Korpela [mailto:jukka.korpela@tieke.fi] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 1:37 AM To: W3c_Access Subject: RE: Accessible site list - change to page address Jim Byrne wrote: > Please use the page at http://www.mcu.org.uk/campaigns/accessible.html - - > Please add your great looking and accessible site to the > list; make it easy for other to find a list of well designed > and accessible sites. I have become more and more convinced of the need for galleries of accessible sites that have other good properties as well, in order to meet some of the very common arguments and prejudices against accessibility. I would not, however, limit the goodness criteria to being great looking. Relevance, originality, and richness of content might matter, too, and so would general usability. As regards to that page, it might be a start, but I see several problems: - it doesn't contain links to the pages except casually; instead the user needs to copy and paste the URL, something that could _easily_ be avoided - it does not contain a simple list of the sites but merges the essential information with explanations - on the other hand, a link is just a pointer, and the target may change without notice; what happens if a site announced as particularly accessible is "redesigned"? (a link to a suitable address at archive.org might be a partial solution - it might tell what the site was like when it was added to the list - it does not clearly say what the pages are about (and neither do many of the pages themselves at first glance or hearing); it's essential to convince people by giving them examples that they find interesting by their content too - it's presumably just a set of submitted pages, so it's _very_ subjective (and to my subjective taste, none of the sites I checked is actually great looking, and in my educated opinion, none of them is particularly accessible either - they may satisfy a set of technical criteria, but e.g. excessively long main pages are a real problem). Recently I was asked whether it would be a good idea to make some icon a symbol of Web accessibility, just as there are symbols for physical accessibility (e.g., the well-known wheelchair symbol). I responded that it probably would, but it seems rather unrealistic. It would need to have _some_ kind of certification procedure, since otherwise it would not have any real meaning. This too raises the question of non-subjective evaluation. (Ultimately, of course, accessibility is all subjective. What matters is whether an individual can access information and services. But to evaluate the overall accessibility of a site, we cannot ask every potential Web user, current and future, and sum it up. So we need evaluations that try to estimate the situation objectively, based partly on some individual experiences, partly on general considerations, reasoning, and simulations.) I think something between purely subjective compilations and formal certifications (as per ISO's certification standard to be published in 2022 or something) is needed. Some review "board" would probably be needed, no matter informal, as well as an open forum for criticizing the board's decisions. But I suppose the W3C does not find itself a suitable organization for that. It could be characterized as a technical organization rather than policy making organization, though WAI is apparent deviation from this, but even WAI has strong emphasis on technical guidance and development. Or could the WAI host an "accessibility evaluation board" and associated galleries of evaluated sites found exemplary (in one way or another)? It would surely give such an activity more visibility, and it could promote the WAI goals in a very important manner. -- Jukka Korpela, senior adviser TIEKE Finnish Information Society Development Centre http://www.tieke.fi/ Diffuse Business Guide to Web Accessibility and Design for All: http://www.diffuse.org/accessibility.html
Received on Thursday, 14 November 2002 08:13:44 UTC