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RE: Bobby inaccuracy?

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:46:17 -0500 (EST)
To: "Scarlett Julian (ED)" <Julian.Scarlett@sheffield.gov.uk>
cc: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0201150940300.20590-100000@tux.w3.org>
I can't think of a problem caused by the lack of a title text. The reason I
leave out the information that it is a logo in the alt is that it doesn't
matter for people who are not looking at the picture what the picture is,
only what it represents - the Council. (For all I know the logo is a picture
of the councillors' favourite cat, in fact).

(Some user agents are not too smart about what to present, and so will give
people the title attribute instead of the alt as a default. It doesn't cause
that much of a problem, and it means that people with good browsers get just
what they would find useful).

Consider what you would use if you had a page that discussed the Sheffield
City Council Logo, how it should be used, and so on (Actualy I imagine there
is one somewhere - one of the first interesting accessibility problems I had
was how to make such a page accessible in the case of a Universit with
complex policies and a number of differnt logos). How would you distinguish



On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Scarlett Julian (ED) wrote:


  thank you.
  Good point about the link situation.
  Not sure about leaving out the word logo though. To my mind if the alt text
  was just Sheffield City Council there would be no telling whether it was a
  photo of all Councillors or the Council's crest/coat of arms, or a photo of
  the town hall...you get the idea. I think the combination of alt text and
  title that you suggest solves it nicely but for succinctness I think I'll
  stick with including "logo" in the alt text. (Unless the lack of a title
  attribute for the image will cause other problems)


  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Charles McCathieNevile [mailto:charles@w3.org]
  > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 1:55 PM
  > To: Scarlett Julian (ED)
  > Cc: 'David Poehlman'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
  > Subject: RE: Bobby inaccuracy?
  > Hi Julian,
  > in my humble opinion, alt="Sheffield City Council" does
  > everything necessary.
  > The fact that something is a link is indicated by almost
  > every browser, since
  > it is a basic feature of the Web. (There are a couple of
  > development versions
  > of obscure browsers that don't identify links, but it is
  > genuinely difficult
  > to find them. I know of one, among about 50 browsers, and I would be
  > surprised if anyone else managed to come up with it).
  > The fact that it is a logo is obvious to people who are
  > looking at it, but it
  > really just gives a name (way to identify a concept or
  > object) in graphic
  > form. In text form that is achieved by the name "Sheffield
  > City Council". You
  > might want to use title="Sheffield City Council Logo" -
  > that's what this
  > object in the page is.
  > You might even want to describe the logo via a longdesc. Then
  > i can use iCab
  > to get at the description when I am using it in speech mode,
  > and afterwards
  > might recognise the thing that was described, when I am
  > browsing in visual
  > mode, or be able to describe it to someone looking in a book
  > of council
  > logos. Or I might not bother - it might be clear enough anyway.
  > Cheers
  > Chaals
  > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Scarlett Julian (ED) wrote:
  >   Aaahhhh, now it's all crystal.
  >   Why does the word logo carry no meaning? Most people,
  > sighted or not, know
  >   what a logo is. I actually thought that
  >   alt="Sheffield City Council Logo -  hyperlink to Sheffield
  > City Council home
  >   page" was good because it a) gave an indication of the
  > purpose of the image
  >   itself and b) gave an indication of it's function as a link.
  >   Would, IYHO, alt="link to Sheffield City Council home page"
  > be better?
  >   Julian
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Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61 409 134 136
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI    fax: +1 617 258 5999
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Received on Tuesday, 15 January 2002 09:46:23 UTC

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