- From: Mike Paciello <paciello@yuri.org>
- Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 00:48:03 -0500
- To: "po@trace.wisc.edu" <po@trace.wisc.edu>, "'Charles (Chuck) Oppermann'" <chuckop@MICROSOFT.com>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Thanks Gregg, looks like your questions got to the list before mine...but they are similar in nature. Speak away Chuck...you've got my interest piqued... :-) - Mike At 11:13 PM 11/3/97 -0600, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote: >Chuck > >I'm missing something here. The only way currently to use a graphic as a >bullet is to *not* use the list constructs (tags) and to just have the >graphic bullets as small graphic images inserted in front a bunch of >indented one line paragraphs (or they use line breaks to keep the lines >closer together). At least that is what people are doing now. > >How does Active Accessibility tell you that that is a list? > >(If and when you can specify that an image is used as a bullet image then >you don't need to put alt text in cause there will be not images to put the >alt text on. If graphics are turned off I would presume the regular >bullets would appear. Hmmmm would the alt text appear at the top of the >list where there image specification for the list was placed? --unless of >course it is in the style sheet.) > >By the way, an old question that didn't get answered (at least if it did I >missed it - too much stuff too late at night). Does HTML 4.0 allow a >graphic to be specified as the image to be used in a UL ? Can you do >it with CSS or CSS2? > > > >You also wrote: >so if I have a picture of a furry dog as my list >item graphic, I as an HTML author need to always use "Item" as the ALT > attribute? Isn't this a misuse of the ALT attribute? > >I would say the answer is no. The purpose of ALT is to represent the >*function* not the look of an item. If all your bullets are fuzzy dogs and >that is just because you are a pet shop, then "item" would be the function >of the Dog bullets. If you used dog and cat bullets to indicate dog and >cat related items then "dog item" or "cat item" would be the proper alt >text. Unless the fuzzyness of the dog represented some meaning, it would >not be in the alt tag. > >At least that is my reading of the consensus of the list. Anyone else >read it differently? > > > >Also, has anyone tested this on any other screen readers? If so let me >know. I'm going to run some tests here but we don't have all the screen >reader and browser combinations. > >Please just listen to the following lines on your systems and tell me (on >the list or separately) which ones pause and which do not. > >Item. Bananas with period. >Item, Bananas with comma. >Item: Bananas with semicolon. > >I have also attached an HTML page with the above items on it. Please let >me know if you get a different result with the HTML page. > > > >(Need to know results soonest for guidelines) > >thx > > >Gregg > > >-- ------------------------------ >Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. >Professor - Human Factors >Dept of Ind. Engr. - U of Wis. >Director - Trace R & D Center >gv@trace.wisc.edu http://trace.wisc.edu >FAX 608/262-8848 >For a list of our listserves send "lists" to listproc@trace.wisc.edu > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Charles (Chuck) Oppermann [SMTP:chuckop@MICROSOFT.com] >Sent: Monday, November 03, 1997 8:39 PM >To: 'po@trace.wisc.edu'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org >Subject: RE: ALT-attribute usage (fwd) > >I disagree with this - so if I have a picture of a furry dog as my list >item graphic, I as an HTML author need to always use "Item" as the ALT >attribute? Isn't this a misuse of the ALT attribute? > >Via the HTML object model and Active Accessibility, screen readers will >know they are talking to a list item already. This guideline only helps >down level browsers and certain screen readers with the *visual* >presentation of the list item. > >I fear that this kind of guideline only makes adoption less likely by >being confusing. > >Charles Oppermann >Windows NT User Interface Group, Microsoft Corporation >mailto:chuckop@microsoft.com http://microsoft.com/enable/ >"A computer on every desk and in every home, usable by everyone!" > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gregg Vanderheiden [SMTP:po@trace.wisc.edu] > Sent: Monday, November 03, 1997 1:11 PM > To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > Subject: RE: ALT-attribute usage (fwd) > > Perfect. Just the feedback we needed. > > Unless I hear otherwise the guidelines will recommend > > 1) that any graphics used as bullets have the alt text "Item" >With a > character to cause a pause after the word. > > The two candidates are Comma and Semicolon. Possibly with a >space > afterward to keep the word from running into the next word. > > Couple of questions to close this one off > > - Is there a consensus that there should be "item"? (I thought >I got one > but am not sure) > - Is comma the proper character for a pause. It is longer but >longer may > not be better. And Semicolon looks better visually and more >natural so it > might get included more. Should we use Semicolon or comma? > - Is the space needed? Can someone confirm? Is it needed for >comma? Is > it needed for Semicolon? > > > Thanks much. > > Gregg > -- ------------------------------ > Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. > Guidelines Scribe and Compiler > > >Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\ItemTest.htm" > > > ------------------------- Michael G. Paciello Executive Director, E-Mail: mailto:paciello@yuri.org Yuri Rubinsky Insight Foundation Tel: +1 603 598 9544 URL: http://www.yuri.org/ FAX: +1 603 598 2839 Promoting Accessibility Awareness! Please Make a Tax-Deductible Donation: http://www.yuri.org/donate.html
Received on Tuesday, 4 November 1997 00:52:41 UTC