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Minutes [was: Agenda for 971023 HTML WG meeting]

From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 13:37:08 -0500
Message-ID: <344F9954.1E0E@w3.org>
To: w3c-html-wg@w3.org, robert_pernett@lotus.com
CC: w3c-wai-hc@w3.org
Minutes of W3C HTML WG

	Dan/W3C (chair, scribe)
	Judy Brewer/W3C
	Al Gilman/W3C WAI
	Mike W/Adobe
	Martin Duerst/Invited
	Steven Pemberton/CWI
	Benjamin Feinman/Netscape

Absent: Murray Maloney/Grif, Jared Sorensen/Novell
	Jeffrey Veen, Lauren Wood/Softquad
(I don't recall getting regrets from these folks. I think
Jared and Jeffrey are only participating in CSS&FP now.
I'll have to check.)

Welcome Benjamin from Netscape, Robert from IBM!
present members: for background/credentials:
see http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Group/members.html#feinman

Sorry for the blunt introduction; you've come in at the
end of the release cycle, and time is short.

Thanks everybody, for staying around 40 min extra.

********* NOTE WELL **********
In order for the editors to produce an HTML 4 proposed
recommendation draft by 31 Oct, ALL comments are due
to w3c-html-wg@w3.org by close of business Monday, i.e.
	Monday, 27 Oct 1997 23:59 EST

The editors *do* intend to release a 971024 draft tomorrow.

references to "current draft", for today, indicate:

Dan Connolly wrote:
> WAI HC, IG accessibility review
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-wg/1997OctDec/0247.html

... some history of HTML WG/WAI WG

WAI HC WG 22 Oct deliverable: Proposed HTML 4 changes:

Dave Summarizes:

scope attribute new in 17 Oct draft
AXES attr renamed -> headers (not in 17 Oct draft)

two proposals, neither is in 17 Oct draft
1: add OPTGROUP element in SELECT,
	add LABEL attribute OPTION

2nd proposal: similar to AXES
2nd proposal is withdrawn. (Verified by Judy)

John: not sure about select MULTIPLE
ACTION John: details in email (don't forget to copy wai-hc,
	as requested by http://www.w3.org/WAI/group/HC/report.html )

LONGDESC is new in 17th Oct draft

new value of MEDIA attribute "console" or "tty",
	plus some changes to the prose explaining the
	MEDIA attribute

Martin: defined by users or W3C?
Al gilman: in any case, not in HTML 4 spec.
Ed: future HTML 4 versions will be burdened with checking
	for existing practice, unless we partition this
	space of names
Martin: e.g. x-

other. REF
consensus in WAI HC WG around these is less clear
as of now, the are not going in HTML 4. Judy Brewer
(exclusively) is authorized to instruct the HTML 4 editors
of a change in the disposition of this issue
(and other WAI) issues.

Judy, Al leave...

> HTML 4 971017 issues list:
> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Group/9710/WD-html40-971017/issues.html
> and Ian's notes...
> In particular, would the following people please assist with the
> following issues:
>    * 41, 45: Scott

Ed for Scott:
RESOLVED: yes, add DEFER per Scott's proposal

45: Steve, John against
ACTION Ed: follow up with scott

51: Add "type" (mimetype) attribute to LINK and A?
RESOLVED: yes, proposal carries

>    * 52: Chris, Martin, Misha.

Misha: yes,
Ed: no, keep it lower

(as it is editorial, possibly re-raise during PR review)

>    * 53: Dave, Arnaud, John, Vendors

Current (971017) spec: caption at beginning and end
Proposed: only at the beginning

Steve P: no; beginning and end
John/MITRE: yes; only at the beginning
Ed: yes; only at the beginning
EDF: beginning and end.
Dave ragget: yes, only at the beginning
Benjamin/NS: no, beginning and end

... much discussion, no consensus emerging
chair asks if it's OK to just decide on behalf of the group
... seems OK

chair is unconvinced of the value of allowing caption at
the end, takes the minimalist position:

RESOLVED: only at the beginning (proposal carries)

Issue: LI content model is restricted to %block;
chair: this seems like a silent change
Ed: what about DIV and BODY? Is raw text allowed to begin
	their content?
chair: no, but I believe that change was made
	consciously by the group

... some discussion of history; chair regrets that the history
	is not documented sufficiently clearly, and we
	have to revisit this anew.
... more discussion...

RESOLVED: <li> and <td>, INS DEL have to be %flow;
	(i.e. (%inline;|%block)*)

some question about <DIV>; for now, stays %block;.

Add a note to the spec: prose describes strict DTD,
	except for explicit exceptions

>    * 69: Chris

currently the spec suggests that a UA might the display
of the " characters in:
<span lang="fr">abc "def" ghi</span>
as french quotes.

RESOLVED: the spec should not suggest this possibility

RESOLVED: Q element behaves as per 2070, i.e. a UA should
	display language-sensitive quote characters where
	<q> and </q> appear. e.g.
		<span lang="en-us">He said, <q>I'll be Back.</q></span>
	should appear as
		He said, "I'll be Back."

[post-hoc note from DSR: the 971017 spec already says this]


For remaining issue, the chair is empowered to decide

ACTION Dan: announce a decision on all issues remaining
	on the issues list today

WG members can argue to change the chair's decision, but for
the period from now until 31 Oct (or 27 Oct, really) open
issues are to be decided by the chair.

Our next meeting is face-to-face. See:

Note the 28 Oct 97 deadline for drafts to be discussed at
the meeting.

Dan Connolly, W3C HTML Working Group Chair
Received on Thursday, 23 October 1997 14:35:57 UTC

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