- From: jake abma <jake.abma@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 11:54:42 +0200
- To: Léonie Watson <lwatson@tetralogical.com>
- Cc: "Patrick H. Lauke" <redux@splintered.co.uk>, WCAG list <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAMpCG4Fk4X77Pp9yMEXfWa_3R3RwNODcu-8fRgXv4pPK7OQDUw@mail.gmail.com>
just came across a possible improvement wew did not pick up (until now?) SC Understanding update: "What it about" Vs. "What is isn't about" https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/744 Op wo 19 mei 2021 om 11:45 schreef Léonie Watson <lwatson@tetralogical.com>: > I think Jake and Patrick make good points, particularly about doing our > best to make WCAG "clearer, more easily understandable, and not some > exercise in reading between the lines". > > If there are known improvements that can be incorporated into 2.2, and > given that there are 116 open pull requests, it's hard to imagine there > are not, we really should be doing all we can to make 2.2 the best > version of WCAG to date. > > It's also worth looking ahead to the time when 2.2 goes to the AC for > endorsement. If there is not a good explanatory narrative, it may not > play well. > > > Léonie. > > > On 19/05/2021 08:30, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: > > On 19/05/2021 07:34, jake abma wrote: > > [...] > >> Personally I do not have the perfect answer, but it would be great to > >> have a thorough discussion about the critical notes from the community. > >> It might be that we can do more than only wait a couple of years till > >> SIlver might be mature enough to use, *and IF Silver solves the > >> critical notes!* > > > > Anecdotally, I've had conversations in the last year or so with > > developers, including people who used to be more involved in WAI-IG > > discussions and the discussions on github etc - and sadly, a lot of what > > I hear is that people are frustrated by long-standing gaps in > > documentation, lack of clarity in some of the non-normative > > documentation that has been around since WCAG 2.0 days (2008!), lack of > > *live* examples of some of the trickier asks of SCs, and just examples > > that they can actually relate to common patterns and practices of modern > > web development. And most of the time, they need answers/clarifications > > *now*, not in some "we'll fix that in the next version, and if not, in > > Silver". > > > > And this frustration, and the feeling of things not actually getting any > > better, is only increased when they then see the backlog of issues/pull > > requests that seem to be going nowhere. More than once I've suggested to > > people that they should file an issue for a specific > > suggestion/question, and they've just told me outright "what's the > point?". > > > > And I won't lie, even I often ask myself the same question in my > > occasional bursts of activity, filing issues/PRs ... knowing that > > they'll end up with a lengthy flurry of back-and-forth discussion...and > > then don't seem to go anywhere after that. Or that they spark page-long > > soul-searching discussions on points that are surprisingly foundational > > ("what IS color, really?" etc), which just underline how some of the > > "fudges"/handwaving definitions of SCs that came from the 2.0 era (and > > have just been rolled into 2.1, and soon 2.2, and then 2.3) may not > > stand up to close scrutiny and poking after 13 years of developers > > trying to grapple with them and trying to apply them to real-world > > diverse content. > > > > But, probably to the annoyance of many people, I persevere - and yes, > > often with fairly strong and stubborn opinions - because I want to make > > sure that WCAG and its non-normative resources can become clearer, more > > easily understandable, and not some exercise in reading between the > > lines ("I think what the WG meant to say at the time is..."). And I try > > (and sure, sometimes miss completely) to make the explanations/examples > > in the non-normative explanatory documents make some kind of pragmatic > > sense - because developers are more likely to follow advice/rules when > > they can understand better *why* they should do it (and not just as a > > box-ticking exercise of "well, you have to because that's the law"). > > > >> For me it feels like the WCAG WG and all related sub-groups > >> are exponentially growing (too ?!) fast and this might result in even > >> more cluttered documentation and it is very hard to keep track on > things. > > > > To this point, I'd add: I know the desire is to show progress by ... > > creating more and more SCs. As a way to show that WCAG is "agile". But > > the risk here is that we end up with a "quantity over quality" outcome. > > And particularly when there's a desire to move quickly and push new > > things out at speed, there's a danger that things are less than > > polished, and more fudges/handwaves are done just to get an SC over the > > line in time. The result is, just like after 2.1 was released, that edge > > cases and unforeseen outcomes bubble up later on, when there's no chance > > anymore to properly address them, because at that point focus is already > > on the next batch of new SCs. > > > > That's not "agile". That is simply adding to "technical debt" of the > > spec and its documentation. > > > >> Don't shoot the messenger ... :-) Love you all, and hope this > >> positive critical note helps us steer into the good direction! > > > > While my abrasive style is probably harsher than Jake's, the motivation > > behind it is the same. I *want* WCAG to be a good set of guidelines. I > > *want* them to be understandable, and as comprehensive as can be. I > > would love to be able to paper over/address many of the vagueness, gaps, > > and overlaps that we found over the years (which become even more > > obvious when you spend time trying to explain things to other > > auditors/developers ... that's when you get those "but *why* is this not > > covered? but what about *this* scenario?" questions, and you'd want to > > have a logical and understandable answer that goes beyond "it is what it > > is, it doesn't have to make sense, you just have to interpret it this > > way and move on". > > > > P > > -- > Director @TetraLogical > https://tetralogical.com > >
Received on Wednesday, 19 May 2021 09:55:09 UTC