Re: Placement of 1.3.4

Stating your opinion and why you think so is very important to the success
of this WG.

However, asking people who has been on the WG for 10 or 15 years, who
helped write the Principles, Guidelines and SC of WCAG 2.0 - to 'take the
time to read a guideline' is a bit unpleasant - don't you think?. At one
time Jason was, I think, a Chair of this WG.

** katie **

*Katie Haritos-Shea*
*Principal ICT Accessibility Architect *

*WCAG/Section 508/ADA/AODA/QA/FinServ/FinTech/Privacy,* *IAAP CPACC+WAS = *
*CPWA* <http://www.accessibilityassociation.org/cpwacertificants>

*Cell: **703-371-5545 <703-371-5545>** |* *ryladog@gmail.com
<ryladog@gmail.com>* *| **Oakton, VA **|* *LinkedIn Profile
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/katieharitosshea/>*

People may forget exactly what it was that you said or did,
but people will never forget how you made them feel.......

Our scars remind us of where we have been........they do not have to
dictate where we are going.

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 1:17 PM, Glenda Sims <glenda.sims@deque.com> wrote:

> Jason,
>
> I respectfully disagree. I believe the strongest logical case is for
> recognizing that "Identify Common Purpose" is about Perceivable: 1.3
> Adaptable.  Let me explain what I think is causing the misunderstanding.
>
>    1. Perceivable/Adaptable
>       - 1.3.4 Identify Common Purpose originally started out to identify
>       the common purpose of more than just input fields.  But at this
>       point...y'all are only willing to try this for "input fields".  The fact
>       that we are leveraging autofill as the metadata (that has a side effect of
>       entering data) is a bonus situation.  When the next piece comes in
>       (Identify Common Controls) this won't just be about input assistance at
>       all..it is about helping people find common things (recognize common things
>       on web pages).
>       - Remember where we are headed.  Review the list of items that I
>       predict will come in next (hopefully in WCAG 2.1).
>       https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-WCAG21-20171207/#commonpurposes
>       <https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-WCAG21-20171207/#commonpurposes>
>       including "Table of Contents", "Next",  "Previous", "Sign out", "Contact
>       Us".
>       - How much time do we all spend looking for things like how to log
>       off and where is that dang contact us link...and what did they name it on
>       this site.
>       - I repeat...the "autofill" side effect is a bonus.  The real
>       intent of this SC is to provide reliable meta-data for Coga AT to be able
>       to help a person FIND/RECOGNIZE these things.
>       2. WCAG 2.0 Guideline 1.3 Adaptable - *Guideline 1.3: *Create
>    content that can be presented in different ways (for example simpler
>    layout) without losing information or structure.
>       - Please take the time to read the Intent of Guideline 1.3
>       <https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/content-structure-separation.html>"The
>       purpose of this guideline is to ensure that all information is available in
>       a form that can be perceived by all users, for example, spoken aloud, or
>       presented in a simpler visual layout."
>
>
> peace out,
> goodwitch
>
>
> glenda sims  |   team a11y lead   |    deque.com    |    512.963.3773
> <(512)%20963-3773>
> *web for everyone. web on everything.* -  w3 goals
>
> [image: IAAP International Association of Accessibility Professionals:
> Certified Professional in Accessibility Core Competencies (CPACC)]
> <http://www.accessibilityassociation.org/certification>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 8:15 AM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote:
>
>> Even if a different attribute is used to implement 1.3.4 than the much
>> discussed autocomplete, it remains very much concerned with input
>> assistance (e.g., making the meaning and purpose of form fields more
>> perspicuous to the user), and there’s a good case that it therefore belongs
>> under Principle 3. I think there’s a weaker case for its current location.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 8, 2018 4:59 PM
>> *To:* Katie Haritos-Shea <ryladog@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> *Subject:* Placement of 1.3.4
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Katie,
>>
>>
>>
>> I was really hoping you’d be there so we could discuss it and get to a
>> conclusion, but health comes first. I’ll try and outline the primary
>> factors we discussed:
>>
>>
>>
>> Primarily – this is an approved SC, we’re in CR, and the discussion is
>> about *placement*, which is an editorial aspect. Therefore we shouldn’t
>> take our focus off the bigger picture of implementations, evaluations &
>> understanding docs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, I was on the COGA call today and put this question to Lisa et al. I
>> think my exact question was: Would you rather this SC was in the current
>> place or under input assistance? Their response was to leave it where it is.
>>
>> As you know I was sceptical, but they do consider It as the first step
>> towards personalisation and would like it’s position (and understanding
>> document) to reflect that.
>>
>>
>>
>> John made the point that the use of autocomplete (and focus on that
>> benefit) has skewed the discussion, the HTML5 autocomplete is the
>> technique, the aim is still personalisation.
>>
>> It also looks like we’ll have one or two user-agents to show the
>> personalisation aspects before the end of the month.
>>
>>
>>
>> From the github issue [1] I was trying to read into your comments which
>> are concerns about the SC overall, and which are about placement.
>>
>>
>>
>> Given the above comments, has that addressed your concern about the
>> placement?
>>
>> And if not, are you likely to be able to make Tuesday?
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> -Alastair
>>
>>
>>
>> 1] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/768
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F768&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Ca73c56f525e9499a785508d585407abe%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636561434344473430&sdata=rIG%2F3S4UauiP41y5GooE7%2FO%2BPl34OuL576qgaHIltOw%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Katie Haritos-Shea
>>
>>
>>
>> I could not make this call as I was at the doctors. Had I been there, I
>> would have strongly opposed tbe response on 1.3.4 and the idea to keep it
>> where it is and not move it to 3.3
>>
>>
>>
>>
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