RE: Pointer SC questions

I can work on this later this afternoon (after a meeting and addressing Content on Hover or Focus issues).  However, I think I'm confused now by the point of Pointer Gestures.

It was my understanding that we were saying that multi-point and path-based gestures simply need to have single pointer options per the existing definition, i.e. a single location via buttons is one option but a single pointer gesture would also be acceptable.  Is that not correct?  If it isn't, then why did we talk about multipoint in the first place?

The issue seems to be that "path-based" is undefined (although didn't we agree on a definition that should be in the meeting minutes way back? I'm almost certain of it).  It was my understanding that path-based was meant to call out very specific gestures like drawing a letter or shape or connecting the dots, and was not meant to include essentially all gestures.  I can see how it would be interpreted this way though (e.g. a flick up or down does depend somewhat on the path).  My suggestion would be either:

1. Get rid of path-based (not preferred)
2. Create a really good definition.


Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2018 12:01 PM
To: Detlev Fischer (TK) <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: Pointer SC questions

I'd love to plus-one this, but the definition "single pointer" 
    referenced in 2.6.1 Pointer Gestures is now in serious trouble because 
    it doesn't work for "2.6.2 Pointer Cancellation" as Steve has pointed 
    out (In SC 2.6.2, one way of meeting the SC would be moving the pointer 
    outside the target for the up-event, so that contradicts the "one screen 
    location" in the 'single pointer# definition).

For that concern I would say that a path based gesture is essential. You can’t have a function to prevent a tap by moving the tap off of the target without a path-based gesture.
    
    Before reworking the definition and/or "Pointer gestures" we need to 
    answert these questions:
    - Will 2.6.2 Pointer cancellation undergo significant changes to bring 
    native buttons into the fold or exempt them (see Patrick's / Paciello 
    group comment #700), or even be abandoned?

I don’t think that the comment in #700 is correct at all, so I don’t think that rewording is needed.

AWK
    
    If Pointer cancellation can be salvaged and remains, should we then
    A - Rework the 'single' pointer definition to work with both 2.6.1 and 
    2.6.2 which might weaken it (no longer one location so pointer can move)
    B - Use two different definitions, or even remove 'single' in 2.6.2 
    Pointer Cancellation so the SC text would then read "For functionality 
    <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fpointer_gestures_update%2Fguidelines%2Findex.html%23dfn-functionality&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cb46a69a61ead4b74d10c08d55bfaaf62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636516054596127446&sdata=VvcJLWURXF9XtNoisPOm2GHkWmKURDQHAs3Q5bRIGxQ%3D&reserved=0> 
    that can be operated using a pointer, at least one of the following is 
    true...". I currently do not see an urgent need to restrict this to 
    single pointer, but there may be one.
    
    Am 15.01.2018 um 06:31 schrieb Andrew Kirkpatrick:
    >
    > Call For Consensus — ends Tuesday January 16th at 11:59pm Boston time.
    >
    > The Working Group has discussed responses to the following issues:
    >
    > 634: (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F634&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cb46a69a61ead4b74d10c08d55bfaaf62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636516054596127446&sdata=AiHm8FKyTv8Nrk2u1QAB5jFn9D3KDm3%2F94UDAEB5lTQ%3D&reserved=0)
    >
    > 663: (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F663&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cb46a69a61ead4b74d10c08d55bfaaf62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636516054596127446&sdata=n6MILoY4Hkg%2B2bs3wDITaFdkb3odXv4BFtkjgirqEeA%3D&reserved=0)
    >
    > Response to Issue 
    > 634: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FDraft_Responses_to_Dec_WD_Issues%23634&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cb46a69a61ead4b74d10c08d55bfaaf62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636516054596127446&sdata=ktjxbxPxfPuGXMg8dt%2BChKmuk6eQRxZldx85s%2BTC8i4%3D&reserved=0

    >
    > Response to Issue 
    > 663: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FDraft_Responses_to_Dec_WD_Issues%23663&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cb46a69a61ead4b74d10c08d55bfaaf62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636516054596127446&sdata=wL8BAs9dhpjR46YhY05E8qfsZQhz9FQlnEXZLtSOf6E%3D&reserved=0

    >
    > The changes to the SC are implemented in this pull 
    > request: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fpull%2F731&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cb46a69a61ead4b74d10c08d55bfaaf62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636516054596127446&sdata=%2B0p3OCdJ4NFOqIfhVkeOeusCl0obkc9sKGsyCdZ%2Bz9A%3D&reserved=0

    >
    > The changed SC can be viewed here: 
    > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fpointer_gestures_update%2Fguidelines%2Findex.html%23pointer-gestures&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cb46a69a61ead4b74d10c08d55bfaaf62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636516054596127446&sdata=Qx5PXgf4nehL4HPjnPwjHp6dY4gvWKsyjxv%2FTeQbZSA%3D&reserved=0 
    > (and “single pointer” definition)
    >
    > If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have 
    > not been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you 
    > “not being able to live with” this decision, please let the group know 
    > before the CfC deadline.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > AWK
    >
    > Andrew Kirkpatrick
    >
    > Group Product Manager, Accessibility
    >
    > Adobe
    >
    > akirkpat@adobe.com <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
    >
    > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7Cb46a69a61ead4b74d10c08d55bfaaf62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636516054596127446&sdata=tWSMtNJCEzjrfNxuNHk%2BEhihBz9YJmXvt7FljbBOIWM%3D&reserved=0 
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    -- 
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Detlev Fischer PhD
    Testkreis
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Received on Monday, 15 January 2018 18:16:55 UTC