Re: SC 1.4.11

> I'm not suggesting we soften it, I'm suggesting we don't widen it.

...and I'm not saying to widen it, I'm saying we use the precise reading of
the exception clause, which both Wilco and Eric have agreed is in keeping
with my proffered interpretation: that "components" may be exempt, "states"
are not.

It is the difference between:

Visual information required to identify user interface components
<https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-user-interface-components> and states
<https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-states>, except for inactive components
or where the appearance of the component is determined by the user agent
and not modified by the author;

​and:

Visual information required to identify user interface components
<https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-user-interface-components> and states
<https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-states>, except for inactive components
or where the appearance of the component
​
*OR STATE*​
​ ​
is determined by the user agent and not modified by the author;

​

​...which, BTW, even those on the LVTF have admitted was originally the
intent of this SC (before it got merged and mangled)​.

If I really had my way, we'd re-open this to instead say:

Visual information required to identify user interface components
<https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-user-interface-components> and states
<https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-states>, except for inactive components
or where the appearance of the component *or state* is determined by the
user agent and *can *not *be *modified by the author;


...but, it's too late now to change the normative text, but not still too
late from using the Understanding and Techniques documents to underscore
this intent. I am at a loss as to why we don't want to pursue that approach.

JF

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 8:47 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> > I fail to see how a primary target audience for any given SC should
> somehow soften or weaken the SC.
>
> I'm not suggesting we soften it, I'm suggesting we don't widen it.
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel:  613.235.4902
>
> LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
> twitter.com/davidmacd
>
> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>
> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>
>
>
> *  Adapting the web to all users*
> *            Including those with disabilities*
>
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> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 9:34 AM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
> wrote:
>
>> > This SC is aimed at improving the experience for low vision users, the
>> focus indicator is generally for keyboard users.
>>
>> And...?
>>
>> I fail to see how a primary target audience for any given SC should
>> somehow soften or weaken the SC.  I'll respond to that statement with:
>>
>> *This SC is aimed at improving the experience for users, and the focus
>> indicator is generally for those users who require it. *
>>
>> https://www.w3.org/WAI/perspective-videos/contrast/ - "...essential for
>> people with disabilities and useful for all."
>>
>> JF
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 4:24 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > ... IMO within the twin cultures of MVP and minimum compliance
>>> without the push of that 30% nothing more would be done.
>>>
>>> I hope that proves to be true. History will tell ...  In the meantime, I
>>> suggest we not get too strident in the interpretation of our new SCs, until
>>> we see what happens with what we've put out there. We
>>> ​ say in our standard​
>>> "The Working Group considers that WCAG 2.1 incrementally advances web
>>> content accessibility guidance for all these areas..."
>>>
>>> Let's keep it "incremental" ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> David MacDonald
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>>>
>>> Tel:  613.235.4902
>>>
>>> LinkedIn
>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>>>
>>> twitter.com/davidmacd
>>>
>>> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>>>
>>> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>>> *            Including those with disabilities*
>>>
>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
>>> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 4:03 AM, Joshue O Connor - InterAccess <
>>> josh@interaccess.ie> wrote:
>>>
>>>> David MacDonald wrote:
>>>>
>>>> These fast implementation cycles are based on the AGILE world... and in
>>>> the AGILE world we also have Minimal Viable product (MVP) delivery which
>>>> I'd say we've overstepped a bit with a 30% increase with this version.
>>>> Let's not widen it further right now.
>>>>
>>>> While I hear your point, I don't think we have overstepped at all. IMO
>>>> within the twin cultures of MVP and minimum compliance without the
>>>> push of that 30% nothing more would be done.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joshue O Connor
>>>> Director | InterAccess.ie
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Foliot
>> Principal Accessibility Strategist
>> Deque Systems Inc.
>> john.foliot@deque.com
>>
>> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>>
>
>


-- 
John Foliot
Principal Accessibility Strategist
Deque Systems Inc.
john.foliot@deque.com

Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion