RE: working on the definitions for support personalization

Additionally, to the best of my knowledge, translations are written voluntarily after the Recommendation is published, so I don’t think waiting for translations that may never be created is going to answer the immediate practical question of how to meet this proposal in any given language.

I can foresee multiple lists of terms being produced for a single language, none of them authoritative, leading to difficulties in programmatically determining the “conventional names” of user interface components. Having natural language controlled vocabulary that also serves the role of formally defined tokens for processing by AT seems attractive, but it’s fraught with internationalization challenges. Also, the terms need to be clear to the users in the context in which they are applied, if they appear as label text, for example.

I find the proposal interesting, but it seems to require a separate specification (with official translations) to make it viable. This, of course, is possible, but not in the scope of WCAG 2.1.

From: David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 10:21 AM
To: White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>
Cc: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>; lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>; W3c-Wai-Gl-Request@W3. Org <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>
Subject: Re: working on the definitions for support personliazion

The important thing about translations as I understand them, having done a bit of work on the French version, is that none of them are official. In other words, if there is any discrepancy between the English and the other language the English one is used.

This might be a time for Michael to step in and provide
us some clarity on how this could work, if it was to be pursued.


Cheers,
David MacDonald



CanAdapt Solutions Inc.

Tel:  613.235.4902

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On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 10:07 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
Perhaps start with token, and see what is possible as we build out after August. It is also possible that we may determine that there is no AT that can do anything with these tokens, in which case we'd have to consider the burden on authors vs the benefit to users, but I think that is a later determination. That's why I think this SC can only be included if it has an "at risk" warning.


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David MacDonald



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On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 9:15 AM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>> wrote:
Token/name pairs could be used, but I’m confident we won’t be able to include equivalent names for various languages within the duration of the WCAG 2.1 development process. How would normative translations come into existence, and how would Web sites conform in languages for which there is no accepted translation? I think the problems associated with a normative list of (localized) names are very real, and I don’t know how they would be solved. Tokens are fine: they can be translated by an AT into something meaningful to the user, but having a dual requirement of being human readable and localized, and reliably identifiable by software, raises difficulties yet to be addressed in this discussion.

From: Alastair Campbell [mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com<mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>]
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 9:10 AM
To: White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>>; David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>>
Cc: lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com<mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>>; W3c-Wai-Gl-Request@W3. Org <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: working on the definitions for support personliazion


From: Alastair Campbell
The problem is that the HTML5 list are tokens for attributes, not human readable names…

[Jason]
All the proposal states is that the name can be programmatically determined, so a browser extension or other assistive technology can simply maintain an HTML5 token to localized name hash table for this purpose, and look up the name from the token.

AC: Yes, but to overcome (mostly John’s) objection the items (names) need to be in a normative part of WCAG, e.g. the definition.

Do you think we can use token/name pairs? E.g.
Full name (‘name’), Prefix or title (‘honorific-prefix’), Etc.

And allow either value to be used?

Cheers,

-Alastair




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