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Re: Moving Issues 62, 63, 71 to the conformance section

From: David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:57:06 -0400
Message-ID: <CAAdDpDYiMxRpRzqdRy4dcHmO0WQJFiqr-KBoUGRWYwRQfyC=ag@mail.gmail.com>
To: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
Cc: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> Try as I might, I've not gotten VoiceOver to work on my Samsung Galaxy
yet, and I don't think I ever will...

Yes it is shorthand, however, I don't think we can require developers to
support every environment. Especially buggy environments ...  (such as
Talkback/Android)

If they can demonstrate the site working on one mobile technology stack
that should be sufficient.

Cheers,
David MacDonald



*Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
Mobile:  613.806.9005

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On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 12:37 PM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com> wrote:

> As an aside...
>
> > The original intention of the SC is to require VoiceOver compatibility
> for mobile views
>
> Try as I might, I've not gotten VoiceOver to work on my Samsung Galaxy
> yet, and I don't think I ever will...
>
> (I realize that this was more "shorthand" than anything else, but we also
> need to be mindful that we are looking for functional outcomes, and not SC
> that address software shortcomings with specific tools - which I know David
> knows. 😀)
>
> JF
>
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 8:04 PM, David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jason
>>
>> The original intention of the SC is to require VoiceOver compatibility
>> for mobile views, especially inaccessible hamburger menus. Personally,
>> I'd like to simply see a qualification to WCAG 2.0 or 2.1 Conformance that
>> a page includes changes caused by breakpoints.
>>
>> Your wording requires ALL AT to be tested and we found that to be a
>> limitless scope of every AT available in the Apple store. We could narrow
>> the scope by limiting the AT the way we did in the SC proposals to
>> "platform assistive technology that remaps touch gestures". This is really
>> the crux of the problem as we saw it on the task force.
>>
>> ***
>> If (1) the content includes features that adapt the presentation or
>> functionality for specific hardware or software environments (e.g., as
>> rendered on devices with different screen sizes), and (2) a different
>> platform assistive technology that remaps touch gestures is used on those
>> environments then the ways in which technologies are relied upon to satisfy
>> the success criteria are only accessibility-supported if they are
>> compatible with user agents and assistive technologies in each of the
>> environments for which enhancements are provided.
>> ***
>>
>> I know its a mouthful but if its accurate we can do a plain language pass
>> later.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David MacDonald
>>
>>
>>
>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>> Mobile:  613.806.9005 <(613)%20806-9005>
>>
>> LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>>
>> twitter.com/davidmacd
>>
>> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>>
>> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>> *            Including those with disabilities*
>>
>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
>> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 4:46 PM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote:
>>
>>> This is interesting. I don’t think screen size is the right concept to
>>> use for purposes of of the clarification that we need. Also, this proposal
>>> doesn’t actually clarify the application of the “accessibility-supported”
>>> requirement by asserting the relevant set of user agents and assistive
>>> technologies that need to be compatible with the ways of using technologies
>>> relied on to meet the success criteria. I appreciate its simplicity,
>>> however.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david@can-adapt.com]
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2017 4:39 PM
>>> *To:* White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>
>>> *Cc:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: Moving Issues 62, 63, 71 to the conformance section
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's another option which might be easier:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ***
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "If components change form based on screen size, they remain
>>> programmatically determinable and keyboard operable."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ***
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It would be placed after the last paragraph in the section
>>> "Understanding Requirement 2" just before the Notes at the end of the
>>> section. https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conforma
>>> nce.html#uc-conformance-requirements-head
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2FUNDERSTANDING-WCAG20%2Fconformance.html%23uc-conformance-requirements-head&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=OzSa6RsINaMaOkGRz5hP6NJHqSU8BoO86HE7OGWPrVw%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> David MacDonald
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>>>
>>> Mobile:  613.806.9005 <(613)%20806-9005>
>>>
>>> LinkedIn
>>>
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdavidmacdonald100&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=EB3oYNzfR2hkc1qw6IbuaCsDcEc8ZU06qljcnuXQQAo%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> twitter.com/davidmacd
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidmacd&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=QtuGL8qoBb92JkUa87O%2Bt6l0JmOqZxrzu5lI4GuGy5M%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> GitHub
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FDavidMacDonald&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=vyZLBGm1BRgreiXBLdYxV4z%2Bnz32zcW9yZ8te9QQCsI%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> www.Can-Adapt.com
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.can-adapt.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=uSTGQHJwALkXIBDE0NfG%2BrfFzN9pAH4kXR5YNYXnwH0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>>>
>>> *            Including those with disabilities*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidmacd.com%2Fdisclaimer.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=arDC0ucVLw4b1n%2BnUUjj4ZfdTTpk3XOuENhWpddbRPA%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 12:50 PM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, David – see further comments below.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david@can-adapt.com]
>>>
>>> I like your second condition, adding an "AND" for different AT in those
>>> environments.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Regarding the first condition, Gregg expressed concern regarding using
>>> broad strokes for the customized view. He suggested we limit it to "size".
>>> He was nervous that there might be customized delivery of content such
>>> information spoken in a car etc, that by its very nature could not meet the
>>> conformance language and inhibit adoption of the standard.
>>>
>>> *[Jason] I would like to see good examples of this that would meet both
>>> of my conditions and which would raise difficulties.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So if I was to take your proposal and adjust it to size, it would look
>>> something like this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If (1) the content includes features that adapt its presentation or
>>> functionality based on screen sizes in specific hardware or software
>>> environments, and (2) different user agents or assistive technologies are
>>> in use in each of these respective environments, then the ways in which
>>> technologies are relied upon to satisfy the success criteria are only
>>> accessibility-supported if they are compatible with user agents and
>>> assistive technologies in each of the environments for which adaptations
>>> are provided.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However, arguing against myself, your proposal  does limit the scope to
>>> environments with different AT. If there is no AT for that environment,
>>> then maybe your language is OK.
>>>
>>> *[Jason] Yes, I’m in favor of mentioning screen size, if at all, only as
>>> an example. Both of the conditions do need to be met for the proposal to
>>> apply, and it only clarifies (at most, expands) the nature of the
>>> compatibility guarantee.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> John Foliot
> Principal Accessibility Strategist
> Deque Systems Inc.
> john.foliot@deque.com
>
> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>
Received on Friday, 14 July 2017 16:57:36 UTC

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